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How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

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Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#41

Post by fit2rule »

thdrdt wrote: post #7

Most western people are very negative about countries like Iran, China and Russia because they are the 'bad guys'. Well this article again shows that there are few countries that will not gain power over dead people. It's sad but true. Now imagine you were living in Iran and came to know about the work of the CIA. Whould you think the USA is the greatest country in the world and democracy is the way to go? I think it…

The People of America may not want war. But the people of USA™, Inc. do. Which one are you?

>Leaders are to blame but most of the people in this world are just living their life.

The people get the leaders they deserve. This is because people are the ultimate power - convince enough people to go along with you overtly: you're a dictator. Covertly: you're a 1% of 1%'er, who knows the right strings to pull in the world.

In the end, neither of these conditions can occur unless the people, in their enthusiasm or in their apathy, allow it.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#42

Post by wizzwizz4 »

ianai wrote: post #30
missosoup wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This right here is a first-hand account of the '''good guy''' Russian angle. It nicely demonstrates the point I was making. Please don't engage with this individual in a flame war.

Kind of sad the text is gone for lack of reference. You nailed it on the nose.

It's not gone, just dead. You can enable viewing dead posts on your profile (but I really do not recommend it; they're dead for a reason).

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#43

Post by AtlasLion »

entropyneur wrote: post #33
missosoup wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is harassing all of its coastal neighbours and trying to politically infiltrate just about every major country on the face of the earth. Russia is invading neighbours, actively escalating military tensions and sabre rattling. They don't really fit the same profile as Iran currently does. Feel free to walk me through the 'good guy' point of view of the people who invaded my home country, shot down a passenger pl…

Not to dispute your point, but this strikes me as a rather wrong stick to measure countries' "badness". There's no difference between mistreating people within and outside of one's borders. Compared to the millions China is keeping in concentration camps the border tensions aren't even worth mentioning. Also, how does Iran not fit the same profile? It's currently #1 world news that their top official got bombed by th…

So Iran being active IB its geopolitical area is meddling, but the US causing the death of a million Iraqis, flying drones over Iraqi air space, bombing people in Iraqi airports is not?

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#44

Post by [deleted] »

trevyn wrote: post #20
thdrdt wrote: post #7

Most western people are very negative about countries like Iran, China and Russia because they are the 'bad guys'. Well this article again shows that there are few countries that will not gain power over dead people. It's sad but true. Now imagine you were living in Iran and came to know about the work of the CIA. Whould you think the USA is the greatest country in the world and democracy is the way to go? I think it…

Can we have a new site rule to not allow straw men?

[deleted]

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#45

Post by twobat »

fit2rule wrote: post #41
thdrdt wrote: post #7

Most western people are very negative about countries like Iran, China and Russia because they are the 'bad guys'. Well this article again shows that there are few countries that will not gain power over dead people. It's sad but true. Now imagine you were living in Iran and came to know about the work of the CIA. Whould you think the USA is the greatest country in the world and democracy is the way to go? I think it…

The People of America may not want war. But the people of USA™, Inc. do. Which one are you? >Leaders are to blame but most of the people in this world are just living their life. The people get the leaders they deserve. This is because people are the ultimate power - convince enough people to go along with you overtly: you're a dictator. Covertly: you're a 1% of 1%'er, who knows the right strings to pull in the world…

> The people get the leaders they deserve.

No, they don't. There's no voting system that allows everyone to be represented.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#46

Post by entropyneur »

AtlasLion wrote: post #43
entropyneur wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to dispute your point, but this strikes me as a rather wrong stick to measure countries' "badness". There's no difference between mistreating people within and outside of one's borders. Compared to the millions China is keeping in concentration camps the border tensions aren't even worth mentioning. Also, how does Iran not fit the same profile? It's currently #1 world news that their top official got bombed by th…

So Iran being active IB its geopolitical area is meddling, but the US causing the death of a million Iraqis, flying drones over Iraqi air space, bombing people in Iraqi airports is not?

> US causing the death of a million Iraqis, flying drones over Iraqi air space, bombing people in Iraqi airports is not

Go ahead and point me to where I said it or assumed it.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#47

Post by AtlasLion »

lowdose wrote: post #17
thdrdt wrote: post #7

Most western people are very negative about countries like Iran, China and Russia because they are the 'bad guys'. Well this article again shows that there are few countries that will not gain power over dead people. It's sad but true. Now imagine you were living in Iran and came to know about the work of the CIA. Whould you think the USA is the greatest country in the world and democracy is the way to go? I think it…

I completely agree with you. I do think China is becoming more and more the example people are looking at how to make progress. Politics aside the growth in wealth and it's distribution over the last 30 years have been magic. Most people living outside the USA are very negative about the United States because this president is a very "bad guy". I'm not under such a opinion but I find it increasingly hard to have a no…

"Most people living outside the USA are very negative about the United States because this president is a very "bad guy""

That's a very simplistic view of people outside the USA. Unlike US news that do no mention US proxy wars, veto votes and the like, other countries are well aware of US foreign policy and the terror it brings with it, be it in south America, Africa, the middle east or elsewhere.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#48

Post by fit2rule »

entropyneur wrote: post #33
missosoup wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is harassing all of its coastal neighbours and trying to politically infiltrate just about every major country on the face of the earth. Russia is invading neighbours, actively escalating military tensions and sabre rattling. They don't really fit the same profile as Iran currently does. Feel free to walk me through the 'good guy' point of view of the people who invaded my home country, shot down a passenger pl…

Not to dispute your point, but this strikes me as a rather wrong stick to measure countries' "badness". There's no difference between mistreating people within and outside of one's borders. Compared to the millions China is keeping in concentration camps the border tensions aren't even worth mentioning. Also, how does Iran not fit the same profile? It's currently #1 world news that their top official got bombed by th…

Americans, you need to understand this - and well: we do not compare China's concentration camps with your kiddy jails.

We compare it with the million innocent people America slaughtered in its illegal wars, and which it continues to slaughter with impunity, under the cover of its heinous "Coalition" quasi-sovereign joint task forces, which exist solely to let Americans get away with murder, while none of us are looking/able to witness the horror.

Now, on top of that, like - really seriously here - America has actual concentrations camps of its own: it's prisons.

Which nation on Earth has the highest portion of its population working as indentured slaves for less than $1 a day in a for-profit complex run by a cabal?

It is not China, or at least .. it could be.

But hey, lets solve one problem at a time. Want to bomb China into letting its slaves free, or maybe pay more attention to the local, at home policies which produce the same conditions, different brand ..

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#49

Post by fit2rule »

AtlasLion wrote: post #43
entropyneur wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to dispute your point, but this strikes me as a rather wrong stick to measure countries' "badness". There's no difference between mistreating people within and outside of one's borders. Compared to the millions China is keeping in concentration camps the border tensions aren't even worth mentioning. Also, how does Iran not fit the same profile? It's currently #1 world news that their top official got bombed by th…

So Iran being active IB its geopolitical area is meddling, but the US causing the death of a million Iraqis, flying drones over Iraqi air space, bombing people in Iraqi airports is not?

Americans have already decided they cannot possibly be held responsible for the war crimes of their state, nor do they have any interest in putting their own leading war figures in the appropriate places (i.e. The Hague) - so you can expect no collective agreement from the HN scene.

But I just wanted to let you know, I have only one upvote to give, but I'll take the downvotes along with you.

We must not stand for the Western aggression to go unacknowledged, nor must we civilised people with the luxury of functioning society (i.e. bridges not yet bombed) allow the war criminals to escape justice.

Every single time the people of the USA assassinate another sovereign entities citizens around the world, it makes itself another few million enemies who would gladly shun Americans, individually, for the deeds of their state.

It is a terrible state of affairs - but rest assured, not everyone sees war as inevitable. We must resist.

Re: How the CIA Overthrew Iran's Democracy in Four Days in 1953 (2019)

#50

Post by yorwba »

elfexec wrote: post #38
entropyneur wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to dispute your point, but this strikes me as a rather wrong stick to measure countries' "badness". There's no difference between mistreating people within and outside of one's borders. Compared to the millions China is keeping in concentration camps the border tensions aren't even worth mentioning. Also, how does Iran not fit the same profile? It's currently #1 world news that their top official got bombed by th…

> Compared to the millions China is keeping in concentration camps the border tensions aren't even worth mentioning. It's millions now? Seems like every day, the propaganda keeps increasing the number. > It's currently #1 world news that their top official got bombed by the US while busy meddling in Iraqi affairs. So the country on the other side of the world that is bombing Iraqis is not meddling? Was it the general…

> Seems like every day, the propaganda keeps increasing the number.

That's been "the number" for a while now. E.g. Shohrat Zakir, chairman of Xinjiang, said during a press conference, when asked about the number of affected persons 一些媒体称新疆教培中心学员“有上百万甚至两百万”，纯属捏造、毫无根据 "Some media claim that Xinjiang's education centers hold 'a million or even two" students, this is completely made up and baseless." However, he failed to provide an alternative number, so "millions" is the best estimate available.

http://www.scio.gov.cn/xwfbh/xwbfbh/wqfbh/39595/42206/index....

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