Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

On Technical Writing

arturdryomov.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–45 of 45 posts

Re: On Technical Writing

#41

Post by wenc »

yesenadam wrote: post #40
wenc wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, what do folks get out of Zinnser's book specifically ? The title has made its rounds in tech circles for a while, and I've read it. Not to be an HN contrarian, but apart from a few tips that it offers toward the beginning, it's actually a pretty dry read and does not itself, in my opinion, reflect good writing (the first few chapters are OK, then it goes downhill from there). I read a lot and unfortunately I…

>a pretty dry read I'm not sure what you mean, except you didn't enjoy his style? Gee, he seems the opposite of dry to me–a very warm, friendly, human voice. If you think he's pretty dry, who in the field do you prefer? I don't think you can have read Zinsser. You misspell his name, and it's hard to believe your sentences are those of someone who's heard his message: "Not to be an HN contrarian, but" – this adds noth…

I think your response comes across as unnecessarily presumptuous and sarcastic. I did read Zinsser (that was a uncharitable blow -- names are misspelled all the time). However just because I have read him does not mean I have assimilated his style or prescriptions, and even if I have, I wouldn't necessarily apply them uniformly in all of my writing.

I will admit I am expressing a subjective preference, not an objective indictment of Zinsser (I did get some value out of the first few chapters). Perhaps this dissenting opinion didn't need to be expressed because in retrospect no value was added because I didn't provide specifics myself (though I could -- I'm happy to make the case). And it's possible that I'm being unfair to the work. So in light of that, I withdraw my statement. But I still don't appreciate your sarcasm.

Re: On Technical Writing

#42

Post by yesenadam »

wenc wrote: post #41
yesenadam wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a pretty dry read I'm not sure what you mean, except you didn't enjoy his style? Gee, he seems the opposite of dry to me–a very warm, friendly, human voice. If you think he's pretty dry, who in the field do you prefer? I don't think you can have read Zinsser. You misspell his name, and it's hard to believe your sentences are those of someone who's heard his message: "Not to be an HN contrarian, but" – this adds noth…

I think your response comes across as unnecessarily presumptuous and sarcastic. I did read Zinsser (that was a uncharitable blow -- names are misspelled all the time). However just because I have read him does not mean I have assimilated his style or prescriptions, and even if I have, I wouldn't necessarily apply them uniformly in all of my writing. I will admit I am expressing a subjective preference, not an objecti…

Hi, sorry, I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I meant every word sincerely and literally, including the questions. At first I thought I had no answer for "what do folks get out of Zinnser's book specifically?", but while writing my comment I discovered that I did! Sure, it wasn't very friendly, sorry for that. I was trying to help your prose. It seemed you mostly didn't like On Writing Well for its being a book, when you got much more from courses and their feedback.

Re: On Technical Writing

#43

Post by coldtea »

aspaceman wrote: post #33
coldtea wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Kids these days" never really goes away huh? And it's seldom wrong either. Kids do have different behavior in different ages. Whether that's good or bad is another thing (in some things it's bad, in others are good). But culture, habits, etc, are not the same blob of sameness for centuries. Kids in 1950 are different than kids in 2020 or kids in 1900. In this particular case, indeed, kids these days seldom read bo…

It’s frustrating because it’s based on anecdotal evidence and preconceptions. It also defaults to the assumption that all change is bad. I know plenty of kids these days who read books, lots of them in fact. Often reading fiction and literature especially.

>I know plenty of kids these days who read books, lots of them in fact. Often reading fiction and literature especially.

Well, since you've mentioned anecdotal evidence, all the statistics say kids read less than ever. Down to 1/4 or so of what kids in the 70s read (including eBooks).

https://www.humanitiesindicators.org/content/indicatordoc.as...

Re: On Technical Writing

#44

Post by coldtea »

JeanMarcS wrote: post #38
minblaster wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, many think their single n=1 counterexample dismantles the truth of a general trend. Especially when they fail to realize the selection bias of their commenting on a forum for curiosity-driven technology enthusiasts.

Why do you assume that American kids decline to read is a reflection of a world trend ? I’m sorry but those numbers are not true everywhere. For example, in France, a study from 2016 shows that 78% of kids read for pleasure, with an average of 6 books per trimester. That’s not that bad I guess, but hey, what do I know, I am not American... So sorry but no, my example is not an n=1. But more a n= 78% of around 70M per…

>Why do you assume that American kids decline to read is a reflection of a world trend ?

Well what happens in the US, more often than not, is usually translated into a global trend too (and surely a western trend), even if it takes a decade or so (anything from fast-food to hip-hop to social trends, etc.). It's not like the US situation for that matter is unique in some way. Kids now have video games, unlimited TV options (even up to the 90s TV options were restricted), YouTube, social media, and several other things besides. Reading books is very low in their priorities.

>For example, in France, a study from 2016 shows that 78% of kids read for pleasure, with an average of 6 books per trimester.

From that number alone, and with empirical observations as a fellow European, I'm curious study and its methodology. Maybe done to promote the "good work" done by the culture or education ministry, or to make the book industry look good (to investors) or trendy (to kids)? Care to post the link to the study? Does it include comic books in that "reading"?

Meanwhile, how about this?

https://www.thelocal.fr/20171205/french-school-children-rank...

Re: On Technical Writing

#45

Post by wenc »

yesenadam wrote: post #42
wenc wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your response comes across as unnecessarily presumptuous and sarcastic. I did read Zinsser (that was a uncharitable blow -- names are misspelled all the time). However just because I have read him does not mean I have assimilated his style or prescriptions, and even if I have, I wouldn't necessarily apply them uniformly in all of my writing. I will admit I am expressing a subjective preference, not an objecti…

Hi, sorry, I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I meant every word sincerely and literally, including the questions. At first I thought I had no answer for "what do folks get out of Zinnser's book specifically?", but while writing my comment I discovered that I did! Sure, it wasn't very friendly, sorry for that. I was trying to help your prose. It seemed you mostly didn't like On Writing Well for its being a book, when y…

Thanks for your clarifying response. I appreciate it. Perhaps I took it the wrong way, and for that I apologize. Happy new year to you.
Post reply on HN