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Hepatitis C kills more Americans than all other infectious diseases combined

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Re: Hepatitis C kills more Americans than all other infectious diseases combined

#41

Post by baq »

georgeplusplus wrote: post #31
save_ferris wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is so depressing to read. US pharma companies are completely out of control, there’s absolutely no reason a 12 week treatment should cost around the mean annual US income. Can’t imagine having to decide to risk my entire financial future to deal with Hep C.

What’s the alternative? This gets tiresome asking because the typically argument is to say “This is crAzYyyy!!!! “ without offering any real solution or input. gilead the makers of Harvoni literally made a cure for a previously uncureable disease, You literally have no respect on a tech site of all places, for all the RnD that went into doing that.

Basically any other country than US is a better alternative for the patient financially.

Re: Hepatitis C kills more Americans than all other infectious diseases combined

#42

Post by tyingq »

latortuga wrote: post #22
shaftoe wrote: post #12

I get their point about stigma, but as someone who has never injected drugs, I'm having a hard time caring about getting screened for this. How do they intend to actually roll out a massive testing operation (everyone under 80) when likely most people hear the details and respond with "meh, not me"?

Also blood transfusions, which could be a wide variety of folks that have had routine surgeries, including, for example, c-sections.

I imagine a fair amount is also from unprotected sex with high risk partners.

Re: Hepatitis C kills more Americans than all other infectious diseases combined

#43

Post by stevespang »

yakz wrote: post #2

Antiviral drugs for hepatitis C are very effective, but they come at a steep cost. Just one Sovaldi pill costs $1,000. A full 12-week course of treatment with this drug costs $84,000. The price of other hepatitis C drugs is also high: Harvoni costs $94,500 for a 12-week treatment Mavyret costs $39,600 for a 12-week treatment Zepatier costs $54,600 for a 12-week treatment Technivie costs $76,653 for a 12-week treatmen…

Could it be that those recommending everyone get screened have a financial interest, or investments in those companies that produce the medicines . . . stranger things have happened . . .

Re: Hepatitis C kills more Americans than all other infectious diseases combined

#44

Post by dpark »

ameister14 wrote: post #32
lawn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ability to pay? Is that a joke? Considering that 40% of Americans can't cover a $400 emergency expense[0], what makes you think they can pay $84,000 for a 12-week treatment? [0]: https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/22/pf/emergency-expenses-house...

Most Americans wouldn't end up paying the 84k. Their insurance would pay for most of that, and negotiate it down further - the other day I was picking up a drug that without insurance would cost over $1,000. I paid $34.

That’s garbage. People without insurance are utterly fucked. The uninsured are sacrificed as a negotiating point against insurers. “List price is $5000. We’ll cut you a deal at only $2000!”

Re: Hepatitis C kills more Americans than all other infectious diseases combined

#45

Post by Retric »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #40
georgeplusplus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the alternative? This gets tiresome asking because the typically argument is to say “This is crAzYyyy!!!! “ without offering any real solution or input. gilead the makers of Harvoni literally made a cure for a previously uncureable disease, You literally have no respect on a tech site of all places, for all the RnD that went into doing that.

I wonder how many people that complain about healthcare costs would be willing to pay higher taxes for taxpayer funded research for medications and education to increase supply of doctors.

Presumably, R&D costs should be shared across all countries rather than individual countries footing the bills. Alternatively a cost benefit from such R&D spending such that US R&D subsidies resulted in free drugs for the US market would be acceptable.

Instead, the US both has the largest R&D subsides and the largest drug prices.

Re: Hepatitis C kills more Americans than all other infectious diseases combined

#46

Post by lotsofpulp »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #38
georgeplusplus wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the alternative? This gets tiresome asking because the typically argument is to say “This is crAzYyyy!!!! “ without offering any real solution or input. gilead the makers of Harvoni literally made a cure for a previously uncureable disease, You literally have no respect on a tech site of all places, for all the RnD that went into doing that.

It's straight up price gouging though these companies are doing. As usual the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.

How do you define gouging? Because a number looks big?

Is Google/Apple/MS/FB price gouging? Their net incomes are massive.

I'd be hard pressed to classify a situation were a company introduces a new product 80% cheaper than the alternative, and still be guilty of price gouging.

Re: Hepatitis C kills more Americans than all other infectious diseases combined

#47

Post by lotsofpulp »

Retric wrote: post #39
nradov wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of Americans have some form of medical insurance so a patient's out of pocket expense would typically be far lower.

Insurance increases net costs via added overhead. So, it’s ~80k * ~1.30 * (number receiving treatment) / (people paying insurance). Aka, it’s both more expensive and more affordable.

Health insurance in the US has overhead capped at a maximum of 20%, or 15% in large employer groups.

https://www.healthcare.gov/health-care-law-protections/rate-...

Re: Hepatitis C kills more Americans than all other infectious diseases combined

#48

Post by tyingq »

georgeplusplus wrote: post #31
save_ferris wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is so depressing to read. US pharma companies are completely out of control, there’s absolutely no reason a 12 week treatment should cost around the mean annual US income. Can’t imagine having to decide to risk my entire financial future to deal with Hep C.

What’s the alternative? This gets tiresome asking because the typically argument is to say “This is crAzYyyy!!!! “ without offering any real solution or input. gilead the makers of Harvoni literally made a cure for a previously uncureable disease, You literally have no respect on a tech site of all places, for all the RnD that went into doing that.

"gilead the makers of Harvoni literally made a cure for a previously uncureable disease"

No, they acquired Pharmasset, the company that made the cure, for $11.2B. That was a pretty low-risk move. It was already an obvious money maker.

"for all the RnD that went into doing that"

In the 18 months following Sovaldi’s approval, Medicare alone spent $8.2 billion on the drugs...that doesn't include private insurance payments. I imagine the acquisition was paid off quite quickly. Pricing after that was just how much profit they wanted to make.

See these for more detail:

https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Wyden-Grassley%...

https://www.finance.senate.gov/ranking-members-news/wyden-gr...

Re: Hepatitis C kills more Americans than all other infectious diseases combined

#49

Post by lotsofpulp »

chmod775 wrote: post #34
nkozyra wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with most commercial goods there's a market identified and the goods priced accordingly to maximize profit. This means that somebody is priced out no matter what. Given the state of American healthcare it's easier to reconcile if you remove the emotional part and view a drug treatment as, say, a television. If I make a 50" television and price it at $500, I accept that some people will not buy it and target my tel…

> All that said, if it's life saving you might be surprised what people can and will do, savings notwithstanding. Withholding a life-saving treatment has to be criminal in some way. I just can't imagine a hospital sending people home to die because they can't pay.

Closest thing is called EMTALA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_an...

Re: Hepatitis C kills more Americans than all other infectious diseases combined

#50

Post by ameister14 »

dpark wrote: post #44
ameister14 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans wouldn't end up paying the 84k. Their insurance would pay for most of that, and negotiate it down further - the other day I was picking up a drug that without insurance would cost over $1,000. I paid $34.

That’s garbage. People without insurance are utterly fucked. The uninsured are sacrificed as a negotiating point against insurers. “List price is $5000. We’ll cut you a deal at only $2000!”

Yep, that's all true. It's worse, actually - the government sets reimbursement rates as well, so when they tell a hospital 'we are only going to pay you 60% of what you charge' what do you think a hospital is going to do in response?
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