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Google claims copyright on employee side projects

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Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#41

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

Intellectual Property and Copyright aren't quite the same thing. The IP is the idea, whereas the copyright is the specific recipe. So in my mind, the equivalent would be using your learned cooking skills for another restaurant while working at a Michelin restaurant. They both serve food (competing or related industry), but while the dishes are different, the techniques to create them come from the same source. I woul…

Intellectual Property isn't really a thing in itself. It's a vague collection of a couple of different concepts, including Copyright, Patents and Trademarks.

Those are three very different kinds of temporary monopolies granted by the government, but the people who promote the phrase "intellectual property" want them to be considered as not a government-granted monopoly on a certain kind of business, but as a natural form of property comparable to physical property, which it really isn't.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#42

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

Yes this is extremely common outside of "tech."

Almost all large employers will make all employees (even the janitor) sign an ownership of inventions agreement as a condition of employment.

Here's an example of such an agreement from a pharmaceutical company I found (section 2.3 and 2.4): https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1245104/000119312512...

See also: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr... for an explanation of why this is.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#43
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait on earth would a Michelin restaurant be able to ‚claim copyright‘ on what one of their chefs does in his free time? As long as said cook doesn‘t say „Michelin star chef from Restaurant X is offering you this dish‘ (which would possibly be a trademark issue, but still not copyright) I don‘t see how this could possibly be forbidden. Everybody is allowed to have more than one job if they please. It‘s just that soft…

> Everybody is allowed to have more than one job if they please. In my country, it's generally illegal to work for a company also work for a competitor. It's a breach of the duty of loyalty to your employer.

It's also that way in the US, but this is going a step further....

Many US employers require you to disclose your side projects (even those you start before joining them). My current employer requires I also tell them of any other business entities I have a relationship with (even unrelated to my job). This then informs them of what IP/consulting fees they can go after if they want to. This is essentially what the Russian Rambler / Nginx issue is claiming to.

It's not fair, just another big corporate overreach because employees have, in the past, made products that might complete, or using work-related IP (including consulting, which leverages work-related knowledge), or using work equipment... and corps lobbied and litigated to essentially soften any defense an employee can claim to retain ownership

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#44

The tweeter admits that Google's policy has changed since then. "I guess they've realized this was a dumb policy, because under the current rules what I did was totally fine."

That's just about the process for a single off patch. Not claiming copyright on what employees do in their own free time/before starting to work at the company.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#45

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

Yes it happens outside tech too. It happens in the food business, manufacturing, industrial design; everywhere companies employ people to produce IP.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#46

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

In Germany this isn't even a thing.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#48
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait on earth would a Michelin restaurant be able to ‚claim copyright‘ on what one of their chefs does in his free time? As long as said cook doesn‘t say „Michelin star chef from Restaurant X is offering you this dish‘ (which would possibly be a trademark issue, but still not copyright) I don‘t see how this could possibly be forbidden. Everybody is allowed to have more than one job if they please. It‘s just that soft…

I mean, the restaurant claiming copyright on e.g. recipies is the same situation as whatever is going on here.

You can't copyright (in the US) a recipe, but the recipe might be considered a trade secret, which effectively can be treated similarly

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#49
post #20

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

Wait on earth would a Michelin restaurant be able to ‚claim copyright‘ on what one of their chefs does in his free time? As long as said cook doesn‘t say „Michelin star chef from Restaurant X is offering you this dish‘ (which would possibly be a trademark issue, but still not copyright) I don‘t see how this could possibly be forbidden. Everybody is allowed to have more than one job if they please. It‘s just that soft…

>Everybody is allowed to have more than one job if they please.

If you have some knowledge worker-type job, your company is highly unlikely to have any problem if you make some pottery on the weekends and sell it. [Although I have no doubt there are overreaching employee agreements.] But even companies with pretty liberal employment contracts around IP, open source contributions, etc. are quite likely to have a problem if you set yourself up as a consultant on the side in a way that's either competitive or a conflict of interest.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#50
post #33

I do software consulting sleeved through various contracting or consulting companies. All of the paperwork I have to sign tries to have a claim to any IP created at the job. I immediately red line this unless there is some sort of reasonableness to it. I don’t mind giving some percentage of IP to a company that kept me busy somewhere for a year and the Resultant IP isn’t the main focus of the engagement. They are rig…

DRY?

Think he means DYR, do your research.
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