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Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

41–50 of 68 posts

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#41
post #7
post #4

My perfect day is 8 hours of caffeine, an hour at the gym, 4 hours of alcohol, SSRI for a nightcap. YMMV

I hope you're exaggerating - that kind of cocktail is going to kill your sleep quality and, in the long-term, quite possibly fry your brain. Thumbs up on the exercise though.

I like how this is getting flagged out - but it's 100% true - this dude is going to fry himself with practically 0% REM sleep.

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#42
post #41
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you're exaggerating - that kind of cocktail is going to kill your sleep quality and, in the long-term, quite possibly fry your brain. Thumbs up on the exercise though.

I like how this is getting flagged out - but it's 100% true - this dude is going to fry himself with practically 0% REM sleep.

Alcohol induces REM, so, you may not be as airtight as you think, there.

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#43

The methodology here is typical for testing antidepressants with animals but many people find it somewhat horrifying: First the mice are made to be depressed by exposing them to constant sounds of birds screeching and other predators. Next some are given the intervention. The level of depression is then measured by putting the mice in a container of deep water from which there is no escape, and timing how long until…

Sounds like the effect of an open office

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#45

The methodology here is typical for testing antidepressants with animals but many people find it somewhat horrifying: First the mice are made to be depressed by exposing them to constant sounds of birds screeching and other predators. Next some are given the intervention. The level of depression is then measured by putting the mice in a container of deep water from which there is no escape, and timing how long until…

This is so wrong I don't know where to start! All of this kind of work is highly scrutinized, you can check it out by starting your own work on reading up on IACUC.

Here are the accepted methods for "dispatching the mice": https://animal.research.uiowa.edu/iacuc-guidelines-euthanasi...

You can decide whether you think this is satisfying to you, or you can consult the bioethicists that helped develop these protocols.

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#46

The methodology here is typical for testing antidepressants with animals but many people find it somewhat horrifying: First the mice are made to be depressed by exposing them to constant sounds of birds screeching and other predators. Next some are given the intervention. The level of depression is then measured by putting the mice in a container of deep water from which there is no escape, and timing how long until…

> A second ethical issue with studies with mice is that often the unfortunate phd student tasked with dispatching the mice will not have been taught any way to do so and will have to try to come up with something on the spot. This can be quite traumatic for both parties. uhhhhhh are you sure about that?? This strikes me as a flagrant violation of policy. Animal studies are heavily regulated. In my experience, (and mi…

As for methods here's the list: https://animal.research.uiowa.edu/iacuc-guidelines-euthanasi...

In my work, our approved methods were isoflurane and decapitation. In some types of experiments CO2 will interfere with your result.

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#47
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I never used alcohol, some many number of years ago my drug cocktail used to not be so dissimilar from yours. All I can say is that, for me personally, and many others, being able to eventually move off that chemical dependency has resulted in richer and healthier days. This isn't a judgement on what works for you, or a suggestion that you do some radical change. Just something to chew on in the back of your mi…

There’s evidence that all of the effectiveness of antidepressants is due to the placebo effect. Contrast this with bipolar or schizophrenia where medications actually seem to benefit vs placebo.

A relative of mine is on a very strong SSRI and stimulant combination; talking to them is almost impossible, they're constantly interjecting and changing the subject. They're a coked up toddler with a particularly large vocabulary.

A lot of SSRIs have the expected mechanism of action of disrupting your executive function. This is usually explained as making you more likely to act. The other is disrupting the linking and creation of long term memories, especially negative ones. You can find research evaluating SSRIs and antidepressents looking for these things. Maybe it's not bad, but long term memory and good executive function are the main components of IQ.

In the above case the stimulants were originally prescribed I think to counteract a loss of focus, they might be worse off without them.

Personally I lost a year and a half to Lexapro. It made me happy (or made me think I was) but completely removed any motivation I had to do anything. In my observations this is typical, and a concern I expressed to the doctors involved. People I've known turned into shells of themselves who never left the house.

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#49
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expound on that? Can you paraphrase the doctor's suggestions?

There isn't much to paraphrase, really. When my doctor was prescribing fluoxetine he offhandedly mentioned that he would start me off with a lower dose than he normally would for a person of my size and issues because I was already taking amphetamines, which meant that I wouldn't need as high a dose. The offhanded way he mentioned it gave me the impression that it was common knowledge and later another doctor also me…

FWIW ssris aren’t dosed by weight anyway, so it was just the amphetamine interaction they were counting on

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#50
post #31

I was under the impression that this is a pretty known effect. I used to take anti-depressants along with CNS stimulants and this definitely was something that my psychiatrist and my other doctors mentioned to me and considered when choosing an appropriate dosage.

They have spent a lot of money to research the fact that people are less productive when hungover. I guess even known things are targets for scarce research dollars.

How much less? How does it depend on exactly how much they drank (linear, quadratic)? How much does it differ from person to person? ...?

It is obvious that it has some impact, but not at all obvious how this works in detail.

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