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The eleven nations of the United States and their cultures

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Re: The eleven nations of the United States and their cultures

#41
post #8
post #5

It's interesting to see how canned phrases to represent certain concepts can become nonsensical when put together : > The Deep South was established by English slave lords from Barbados and was styled as a West Indies-style slave society, Woodard notes. It has a very rigid social structure and fights against government regulation that threatens individual liberty. Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Georgia, and So…

Thinking about who has the vote back when the USA became independent, I think of those lords as being close in character and power to dark age European kings, and I mentally map their slaves to feudal serfs.[0] My cynical reading is that describes an attitude of “if you let someone else tell you what to do that makes you a peasant, so when we do it it’s fine because we do it to peasants, but when other people do some…

A better analogy would be to the lower, mostly independent rungs of a feudal society like the English yeoman. Antebellum, the general attitude in the South was that even the poorest person was entitled to live his life as he saw fit on his land, and should be regarded as equal to a rich plantation owner with employees and slaves. There was generally no bureaucracy that could force a poor person to lose his land, make his children leave home for school, incur expenses, etc. Social customs somewhat enforced neighborly behavior in place of regulation. This is how slaveholding could persist; rights depended on having just a bit of land.

That is why the Reconstruction of the South was so painful; it was essentially a social and political revolution by top-down administration to add bureaucracy and consolidate the economy into larger farms and industrial owners/laborers.

Re: The eleven nations of the United States and their cultures

#42

American state boundaries clearly do not reflect these national regions. Federal states have boundaries that either serve to unite separate territories or to administer a united territory. It has probably a source of strength in the US, that states are either much too small or contain multiple different areas in them, since it fosters a broader, national US identity rather than an identity as a New Netherlander or a…

> If Americans tried to reorganise their boundaries along the lines of the article's map, they would probably stop "coming together" and start "moving apart" in the course of a few generations. In the short term, though, it would probably ease a lot of the pressure currently felt.

Americans are "together"? Huh? Have you ever been there?

USA is a pretty bad system, it ensures that somehow the poorest, smallest states have disproportinate to large, richer states. This means people from Kentucky whose entire life is Tobacco somehow get more power over the government than California, who accounts for 20% of the GDP and 10% of the population.

USA would be far better off breaking into multiple countries then forming an EU like structure. As a Californian tired of subsidizing rednecks who would like to see the beautiful Bear Republic turned into strip clubs and endless highways,, I can say that the American experiment is a failure and it's time to try something new.

Re: The eleven nations of the United States and their cultures

#44

I had always divided the US into four separate countries but Woodard's theory of 11 isn't so far off.

I had a Prof in college who wrote a book about the US being 4 sections since its founding, he called them folkways

https://www.amazon.com/Albions-Seed-British-Folkways-cultura...

Re: The eleven nations of the United States and their cultures

#46
post #5

It's interesting to see how canned phrases to represent certain concepts can become nonsensical when put together : > The Deep South was established by English slave lords from Barbados and was styled as a West Indies-style slave society, Woodard notes. It has a very rigid social structure and fights against government regulation that threatens individual liberty. Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Georgia, and So…

> The pro- slavery rigid society that somehow values individual liberty?

One thing described it's history, another - current state of affairs.

Re: The eleven nations of the United States and their cultures

#47
post #5

It's interesting to see how canned phrases to represent certain concepts can become nonsensical when put together : > The Deep South was established by English slave lords from Barbados and was styled as a West Indies-style slave society, Woodard notes. It has a very rigid social structure and fights against government regulation that threatens individual liberty. Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Texas, Georgia, and So…

> It has a very rigid social structure and fights against government regulation that threatens individual liberty

Frankly I dont really see the contradiction. You can have a 'rigid' social structure and still frown upon the interventions of external forces such as government on that social structure. Not liberty in general but specifically liberty from government.

Re: The eleven nations of the United States and their cultures

#48
post #39

American state boundaries clearly do not reflect these national regions. Federal states have boundaries that either serve to unite separate territories or to administer a united territory. It has probably a source of strength in the US, that states are either much too small or contain multiple different areas in them, since it fosters a broader, national US identity rather than an identity as a New Netherlander or a…

What do you mean by “weakness as a federal state”? In terms of division of power between states and federal, the Canadian federal government has much more power than the US federal government. After I learned more about it, I was quite surprised at the level of autonomy that US states have.

US states are (in most respects) theoretically more powerful than Canadian provinces, and this does show up, for example, in the criminal code being federal legislation in Canada, but state legislation in the US (though the US federal government also gets to enact criminal law, which seems rather bizarre).

However, in practice, Canada provinces tend to be more powerful than US states, perhaps because there are fewer of them. In both countries, the federal government tries to intrude using means such as conditional transfers of funds - taxing the citizens of states/provinces and only giving back the money if the state/province does as they wish. In Canada, this is most notable for health care, which is supposedly a provincial responsibility, but which the federal government meddles in extensively.

Re: The eleven nations of the United States and their cultures

#49
post #30
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland seems to be doing OK as a counterexample. Its cantons have a high level of self-government and a history as independent states and cultures. Yet Switzerland is a prosperous country with a strong national identity and minimal talk of secession by the cantons.

Being a much smaller country, in terms of land and population, I would assume variations within must be lighter too.

I don't understand what you mean by "lighter". You're aware that Switzerland has four national languages, right? That's a big variation!

Re: The eleven nations of the United States and their cultures

#50
post #43

The author hasn’t spent much time in Utah, if he didn’t split it out.

The article aggregates. But outside of Salt Lake City, what did the author miss? Nevada is different from Las Vegas as well.

I was impressed with the north/south divide in Missouri and the east/west divide in Tennessee. However, I wouldn't put Santa Barbara, Los Angeles and San Diego in El Norte. The author may have had better reasons though.

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