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Subscriptions Are Remaking Corporate America (2018)

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Re: Subscriptions Are Remaking Corporate America (2018)

#41
post #26

Subscriptions for SaaS are essentially a lease, and leases are almost always preferable to sales for the one doing the leasing. See e.g. IBM[1] [edit] Software (and other media with a high development cost, but low marginal cost such as films) are particularly valuable to lease, because you remove the secondary market, which can cannibalize sales. 1: https://www.jstor.org/stable/40751117?seq=1

For SaaS I agree but subscriptions for stationary bike, for food, for printer ink, for traktors, etc.

Stationary bike and tractors fit the mold perfectly; if you can't use it without the subscription, it's effectively a lease.

Food and printer ink are different because they are consumables.

Re: Subscriptions Are Remaking Corporate America (2018)

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think subscriptions are fine; it is the banks that give power to corporations by making it impossible to control who bills your accounts. If you could easily see recurring billing charges and cancel on your bank's end easily, companies would have to step up and offer a useful service.

PayPal has many issues, but this is one of the things they get right, and I tend to steer in their direction for anything recurring as a result. You can cancel a recurring payment with a few clicks.

Good to know! Is it all administrable from mobile?

Re: Subscriptions Are Remaking Corporate America (2018)

#43
post #16

A year ago I downloaded an interval running app for 10 dollars. Recently I recommended it to a family member only to find out they changed the pricing to 10 dollars per month for the same features.

You can’t tell me that interval running app is as useful to you as a Spotify subscription. 10/mo is pretty steep comparatively!

Re: Subscriptions Are Remaking Corporate America (2018)

#44
post #43
post #16

A year ago I downloaded an interval running app for 10 dollars. Recently I recommended it to a family member only to find out they changed the pricing to 10 dollars per month for the same features.

You can’t tell me that interval running app is as useful to you as a Spotify subscription. 10/mo is pretty steep comparatively!

At a certain point it gets cheaper to find a Mac on Craigslist, sign up as an Apple developer, and build it myself

Re: Subscriptions Are Remaking Corporate America (2018)

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already there. I just hate random money coming out of my account. I just gave fastmail $130 for three years. I wish I could have given them a thousand for lifetime so I would just never have to think about it again. I bought a lifetime Plex Pass for $150 so I would never have to think about it again. And no hard feelings if these services were to shut down. I can deal with a large one time payment. A bunch of ran…

Selling lifetime services for something like that is very risky. It would be like paying someone a few million dollars and then they have to try to budget it out for the rest of their life. Also what happens if the company runs out of money and cant continue services. You have already paid for a lifetime subscription but they have no money to give you a refund.

That is why I said "no hard feelings". Fastmail or Plex could shut down tomorrow. I would be disappointed, but I wouldn't scream for a refund.

As long as I felt that they tried I would be alright.

Our wonderful journey wouldn't cut it. But a simple, we went broke would be cool.

Re: Subscriptions Are Remaking Corporate America (2018)

#46
post #31

I wonder if sometime in the future, there is going to be subscription fatigue.

I don't know how it scales at all. I just cancelled Netflix because I'm also paying for Amazon Prime. Netflix hasn't had anything worth watching for a good few months but it took me longer than that to go in and cancel it. But the trajectory suggests that you'll need to sub with Amazon, Netflix, HBO, Disney, etc. if you want the full range of streaming TV. You're going to have to start micromanaging that if you don't…

> But the trajectory suggests that you'll need to sub with Amazon, Netflix, HBO, Disney, etc. if you want the full range of streaming TV. You're going to have to start micromanaging that if you don't want to throw your money down the drain.

I expect someone will make a site or app or service for managing this, which lets you maintain a "want to watch" list with optional priorities.

For each streaming service, the app would tell you which if the items you want are on that service, and how many total hours of content that is. You can use this to help decide which, if any, streaming services you should subscribe to for each month.

I have no idea where one would get the data for such an app, but this site [1] seems to have it, so I infer that it is possible to get it. They have a paid API, so maybe they could even be used as the data source.

[1] https://reelgood.com/

Re: Subscriptions Are Remaking Corporate America (2018)

#47
post #7

subscribe to read hahahah For one, I hope subscriptions die. It's a pernicious trend that is borderline fraud for consumers (like gyms, profiting from users who simply forget to unsubscribe or making it painfully hard to unsubscribe). It's also exclusionary for most of the world for whom the subscription price might be a year's income. With downloadable software it was kind of possible to find a crack online, but web…

I'd like to see free trials regulated. 80% of the ongoing price should be the maximum discount allowed for any first billing period. It's like a tollway on-ramp advertising "free* toll for X miles, for the next Y minutes" ... "(*) after which, as much as we care to charge". It stifles assessment of the value for the service as a whole, which is the stated point of a trial. A cheap sentiment is understood but an expensive rate is locked-in. It's a Fake Gesture.

Dark patterns at the off-ramp deserve more attention too. Try to unsubscribe from netflix and they would just as soon give you an extra one or two months free, asking you to cancel later. They know something finally prompted you to the task after a few months of sparse usage which may not happen the next time. Before you know it, you helped make a trusted account on a friends device and it becomes easier to justify the expense.

Re: Subscriptions Are Remaking Corporate America (2018)

#48
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most subscriptions are on credit cards, and having available credit implies a stable cashflow (even if you are operating at a loss).

Visa/Mastercard debit cards are a thing.

In fact, I'd argue that credit cards are US thing. You can pay for most stuff on-line with debit cards just fine. Over the past decade, I had to use PayPal maybe 3 times, because some braindead payment system wouldn't accept debit cards.

(It may differ between classes and countries, but over here in Poland around people I know, having a private credit card is like shaving with a straight razor - it's awesome if you can handle it without hurting yourself, but most people can't and are smart enough to not even try.)

Re: Subscriptions Are Remaking Corporate America (2018)

#49
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't with unexpected or fraudlent charges. It's with the expected ones. Each subscription is another recurring charge, of a different amount and at a different time. Eventually it can become a death of a thousand papercuts. I too share the subscription fatigue, and avoid subscriptions as much as possible. I prefer to pay once, up front.

eh, but the comment you are responding to had a solution that worked for me for some time. I haven't used privacy.com, but bank of america used to have a way for me to create virtual credit card numbers; I'd simply create one for every subscription I had, and it was really easy to just disable the virtual credit card. Bank of America has discontinued this service, and I haven't setup a new workflow, which is disappoi…

I didn't mean that. Let me rephrase it more clearly: recurring payments are a problem by themselves, the more of them you have, the more problem they are. This makes things offered as subscriptions inferior to actual products you can buy one-off, at least in this aspect. If you're wealthy enough to put money for couple years worth of service into a virtual CC for every service you can use, you're probably wealthy enough to manage all this stuff for you anyway.

Re: Subscriptions Are Remaking Corporate America (2018)

#50
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eh, but the comment you are responding to had a solution that worked for me for some time. I haven't used privacy.com, but bank of america used to have a way for me to create virtual credit card numbers; I'd simply create one for every subscription I had, and it was really easy to just disable the virtual credit card. Bank of America has discontinued this service, and I haven't setup a new workflow, which is disappoi…

I didn't mean that. Let me rephrase it more clearly: recurring payments are a problem by themselves, the more of them you have, the more problem they are. This makes things offered as subscriptions inferior to actual products you can buy one-off, at least in this aspect. If you're wealthy enough to put money for couple years worth of service into a virtual CC for every service you can use, you're probably wealthy eno…

>recurring payments are a problem by themselves, the more of them you have, the more problem they are.

In some ways, I agree. In others, I don't. I mean, the problem is largely in the difficulty of unsubscribing. If that were easier to manage (and virtual cards are one way to deal with that) I think it's not such a problem, and even has some advantages. But you could easily argue that this difficulty of unsubscribing is built into the business model; people who sell subscription based services know that the harder it is to unsubscribe, the more money they will make, so... incentives are not, as it were, aligned, and that tends to lead to suboptimal outcomes.

I think there are valid arguments for the subscription model; I know before buying a car, I rent all of the models I'm considering, for a week or more. This is often harder with things like software, which don't have as strong of ownership protections as physical goods, meaning I usually can't rent software to try it out, if it's not sold on a subscription plan. I'd consider renting a car permanently, (except that it's either massively expensive or massively inflexible; getting out of a lease, as far as I can tell, is way harder than selling a car, and renting cars outside of a lease is uneconomical. I feel the same way about commercial real-estate; usually the penalties for breaking a lease seem a lot worse than just selling the goddamn building a year into ownership. And this is possibly your objection; if you have perfect knowledge of your future needs, buying software up front is probably a lot cheaper. But, without the ability to sell the software when you are done, it's not really comparable.)

>If you're wealthy enough to put money for couple years worth of service into a virtual CC for every service you can use, you're probably wealthy enough to manage all this stuff for you anyway.

I think wealthy people would be willing to pay for an easier solution to this. I would. the virtual credit card solution is clumsy because the software is bad (I haven't actually gotten the capital one solution suggested earlier setup, it might be great, but the citi solutions and the now defunct bank of America solutions require flash and are... clumsy) - the problem isn't the money; for all the virtual credit card solutions I've tried, the payment goes to your regular credit card, so you don't need to sink any capital, it's just work

(but, of course, this is mostly about how difficult it is to cancel subscription services. If it were easy, this wouldn't be a problem. - I think this is our major point of disagreement.)

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