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Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

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Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#41

Post by [deleted] »

Tenoke wrote: post #7
otakucode wrote: post #4

The one example with regards to doctors has worked for me in the past. I am sure the doctor didn't get the impression that I was a doctor also (I'm not), but when in my initial meeting with a new doctor the fact that I knew the non-brand names of OTC medications and mentioned only asking for antibiotics after having a fever that wouldn't break for more than 48 hours she basically said "oh you know what you're talking…

I'm very skeptical that any doctors think you are a doctor because you know Acetaminophen and Tylenol are the same thing (the example from the tweets) in general. I know doctors and they are typically very used to people 'knowing' random bits from their googling before they came in, and would rarely act like the patient has an actionable expertise even if they do. In this example I suspect the doctor would've ended u…

[deleted]

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#42

Post by weinzierl »

Tenoke wrote: post #7
otakucode wrote: post #4

The one example with regards to doctors has worked for me in the past. I am sure the doctor didn't get the impression that I was a doctor also (I'm not), but when in my initial meeting with a new doctor the fact that I knew the non-brand names of OTC medications and mentioned only asking for antibiotics after having a fever that wouldn't break for more than 48 hours she basically said "oh you know what you're talking…

I'm very skeptical that any doctors think you are a doctor because you know Acetaminophen and Tylenol are the same thing (the example from the tweets) in general. I know doctors and they are typically very used to people 'knowing' random bits from their googling before they came in, and would rarely act like the patient has an actionable expertise even if they do. In this example I suspect the doctor would've ended u…

> I'm very skeptical that any doctors think you are a doctor because you know Acetaminophen and Tylenol are the same thing (the example from the tweets) in general.

That's what I thought too, but at the same time I don't doubt the rest of what otakucode described. Being well prepared and honestly interested gets you often a long way. More importantly the expert (the doctor in this case) does - in my experience - almost never care if you are a real doctor, your wife is a doctor, you abandoned med school, etc. All they care is that there is an individual that seems to speak their language and that they can at least try to skip the translation layer and explain the problem in their own language - which I think is relief to them.

Being well prepared and honestly interested instead of trying to leave the impression to be the expert is the key here I think. With that being said I wouldn't advise stressing not being an expert in the field either. This only puts up a barrier and puts the real expert under pressure to switch on the translation layer again.

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#43

Post by netcan »

aasasd wrote: post #29
netcan wrote: post #10

This is (hopefully not) obnoxiously off-topic... As a Hebrew speaker, I wish the "shibboleth" idiom (which is a good one) was translated, rather than transliterated. laoned idioms are inherently exotic, and this one is worth demystifying It means any choice of word (or pronunciation, in the literal example) that clearly identifies the speaker's group affiliations. A good modern example is "LondonDerry/Derry. This'd b…

> I wish the "shibboleth" idiom (which is a good one) was translated, rather than transliterated. [...] A good modern example is "LondonDerry/Derry. This'd be my choice for an English translation of shibboleth. Well, the thing is, I'm not an Englishman so have no idea what's the deal with ‘Derry’ is, but I know what a shibboleth is. It has become an English term—and btw not an idiom in English since it has no other m…

I agree. Terms become terms and we can't change it.

I just meant that idioms tend to be richer when the source is material.

Point taken on finding an example that everyone understands.

Any political context creates shibboleths by the dozen. The UK is good for making ones that stick around. "Nationist" and "National" political movements, for example, are apposite (and opposing).

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#45

Post by mmahemoff »

Technical support would go more smoothly if they asked about the submitter's technical level.

Dreamhost's support form used to have a field on how technical are you. The options went something like "I know nothing" to ""not being funny, but I probably know than you".

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#46

Post by hprotagonist »

FabHK wrote: post #38
leipert wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I am a native German speaker, and apart from grammar (people usually have a bit of trouble with cases, articles and particles) there are a few nice words to trip people up: - Streichholzschächtelchen (match box – diminutive): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:De-Streichholzsch%C3... - Austrians use a lot of different words, my favorite being Jänner and not Januar for the month January - Swiss German: Chuch…

Allegedly, during the invasion of the Netherlands by Nazi forces commencing on May 10th, 1940, the Dutch used "Scheveningen" or "beschuit" as a shibboleth to distinguish German speakers from Dutch. I don't quite understand that, as most Germans don't speak Dutch, full stop, and it would be trivial to distinguish them thereby, while presumably if you have gone to the trouble of learning Dutch, you'd know how to pronou…

> while presumably if you have gone to the trouble of learning Dutch, you'd know how to pronounce "Scheveningen".

It’s actually hard to do. This is a good choice of shibboleth.

I’d propose “squirrel” as an english word to find german speakers.

Famously, pacific theater allied forces occasionally used “lollapalooza” as a shibboleth, also for fairly obvious reasons.

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#47

Post by ekianjo »

knolax wrote: post #39
everyone wrote: post #35

So when this guy is dealing with a doctor. He pretends to be a doctor himself? I assume the doctor would notice the guy is acting like a weird asshole for some reason but not mention it. I guess the tweeter thinks hes being cool and 'hacking' his interactions with people, but I reckon he's just acting like a weird asshole and people are having to deal with it. This is just quite funny imo.

IME doctors hate it when patients act like their medical knowledge is on par with theirs because 99% of the time it isn't.

Can confirm. It's going to be a generalization, but doctors have a sense of authority (in some countries more than others) and hate to be challenged by just anyone.

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#48

Post by partyboat1586 »

chillydawg wrote: post #20
netcan wrote: post #10

This is (hopefully not) obnoxiously off-topic... As a Hebrew speaker, I wish the "shibboleth" idiom (which is a good one) was translated, rather than transliterated. laoned idioms are inherently exotic, and this one is worth demystifying It means any choice of word (or pronunciation, in the literal example) that clearly identifies the speaker's group affiliations. A good modern example is "LondonDerry/Derry. This'd b…

Is using the word shibboleth a shibboleth? I never really understood it until now and have never and probably wouldn't use it.

Using the word makes you sound like a smartass. As if other people don't know what a shibboleth is. Everyone knows it without needing a word for it.

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#49

Post by indocomsoft »

FabHK wrote: post #38
leipert wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I am a native German speaker, and apart from grammar (people usually have a bit of trouble with cases, articles and particles) there are a few nice words to trip people up: - Streichholzschächtelchen (match box – diminutive): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:De-Streichholzsch%C3... - Austrians use a lot of different words, my favorite being Jänner and not Januar for the month January - Swiss German: Chuch…

Allegedly, during the invasion of the Netherlands by Nazi forces commencing on May 10th, 1940, the Dutch used "Scheveningen" or "beschuit" as a shibboleth to distinguish German speakers from Dutch. I don't quite understand that, as most Germans don't speak Dutch, full stop, and it would be trivial to distinguish them thereby, while presumably if you have gone to the trouble of learning Dutch, you'd know how to pronou…

I think it’s because in German, sch is one consonant (like sh in English), while in Dutch, sch is a consonant cluster of s-ch, ch as in Loch Ness.

Re: Shibboleths that get you past the initial script stage

#50

Post by jordansmithnz »

I’ve given thought in the past to some sort of ‘support reputation system’. After calling tech support, they’d rate your manner and how capable you seemed, and this would feed through into your future calls (e.g. calling an ISP with a genuine + very technical question might mean you go straight to the highest tier of tech support next time you call).

It would save time for tech support workers too; no need to vet very tech capable callers for things like ‘have you tried turning it off and on again’. So theoretically, the call wait time might even reduce for callers with simple/obvious questions.

There are probably some details to iron out and problems to solve, but the basic idea seems pretty feasible to me.

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