Astrophotography with Night Sight on Pixel Phones • Hacker News Board

Re: Astrophotography with Night Sight on Pixel Phones

#41

Post by SiempreViernes » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

ygra wrote: post #36

jakecopp wrote: post #24

If all the advancements in smartphone photography is in software, why aren't DSLR/mirrorless manufactures doing it too? I don't want my camera to have a touchscreen/social media/wifi but it'd be cool if Adobe Camera Raw/some alternative could do this stuff!

IMHO they've basically missed an opportunity here for many years. They'd be in a perfect position to offer those things, combined with a much better/larger sensor, which enables even better images. On smartphones it's a matter of necessity, as the sensor is (fairly) crappy in comparison, but on a DSLR it could still be a benefit. Personally I'd be perfectly happy to get a pre-processed DNG from the camera instead of…

While it would be nice to load some post-processing script onto the camera and get all that done by the camera without having to bother with it yourself, all that processing will cost battery life, as well as response time. Having to charge your DSLR every day is a huge cost in convenience, and making a dedicated imaging machine unresponsive would be terrible.

Additionally, you are always going to move your pictures out of the camera for proper viewing, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to provide the best possible picture already in the camera.

I don't know if the software they bundle with the camera is any good at this computational photography though (I've never checked to see if there are linux versions), but it better be if it indeed helps image quality.

Re: Astrophotography with Night Sight on Pixel Phones

#42

Post by meigwilym » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #38

emptybits wrote: post #5

This is amazing. Now just FYI, for those curious, some recent "old guard" innovations by pro camera makers for astrophotography include: 1. Leveraging the multi-axis image-stabilizing movement available to an in-camera DSLR sensor with GPS for the purpose of tracking the sky during a long-ish exposure to reduce star trails. Ricoh-Pentax Astrotracer. http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/photo-life/astro/ 2. Removing…

(2) is about 15 years old, but can you explain how actually does (1) work?

This is what I understood: I think the software uses the GPS and camera orientation to calculate which way the sky moves relative to the lens. Then uses the camera's image stabilisation to track the sky, i.e. instead of moving the camera, move the sensor.

Re: Astrophotography with Night Sight on Pixel Phones

#43

Post by bla3 » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

This is super cool tech. But I can't help thinking that this shows that the Pixel camera lead must be someone with an engineering background who got nerd sniped by this problem because it's cool and hard to do. Someone with a product background would've focused on something less niche.

On the other hand, some people who like Google like it because it still sometimes works on geeky, cool, fun stuff instead of being super product focused.

Re: Astrophotography with Night Sight on Pixel Phones

#44

Post by neogodless » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 2:33 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #39

I'd prefer to see Google focus on just making the Pixel line better everyday phones than working on exotic stuff like this or the motion sensor they added in the Pixel 4. Right now there's not much reason to choose a Pixel unless stock Android is your top priority.

A few years ago, it seemed like the manufacturers were going haywire with terrible, clunky launchers that slowed down already slow hardware. A clean, stock Android seemed like the only option for reasonable performance, and there was a promise of timely updates.

Well, now hardware is fine and the "updates" are starting to feel less and less valuable. They no longer bring faster, cleaner interfaces. They just bring some new widgets and gizmos.

Now, I think the Pixel line is... OK. My wife and I have a Pixel 2 XL (used, ebay) and a Pixel 3 (spring sale for $400). And the 3a line is close to "everyday" pricing, especially when it goes on sale. But I'm starting to question whether it's worth sticking to Google's stock phones or if it's time to start cross-shopping competitors once again. But for so many of us, being able to snap photos and have them look pretty good is a nice comfort after the ugly early years of phones with cameras that required a lot of patience and persistence to use.

So in my opinion, there's value in putting resources into ensuring good photography, even if that's not the priority for every phone buyer. What are the best alternative phones with "good enough" cameras and "everyday" pricing?

Re: Astrophotography with Night Sight on Pixel Phones

#45

Post by SiempreViernes » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

meigwilym wrote: post #42

anovikov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(2) is about 15 years old, but can you explain how actually does (1) work?

This is what I understood: I think the software uses the GPS and camera orientation to calculate which way the sky moves relative to the lens. Then uses the camera's image stabilisation to track the sky, i.e. instead of moving the camera, move the sensor.

Yeah, though obviously since this is merely image stabilisation, and not a dedicated de-rotation, there are limits to how far the system can move the sensor and thus to how long the exposure can be.

Re: Astrophotography with Night Sight on Pixel Phones

#46

Post by AllanHoustonSt » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #39

I'd prefer to see Google focus on just making the Pixel line better everyday phones than working on exotic stuff like this or the motion sensor they added in the Pixel 4. Right now there's not much reason to choose a Pixel unless stock Android is your top priority.

I don't think Google has it in them. Something about their vertical integration, supply chain management, cross team coordination, etc etc. They just consistently put out phones that are subpar in the daily usability and quality control fronts. So I'm kinda glad they go for these exotic features. They know they have to stand out somehow.

Re: Astrophotography with Night Sight on Pixel Phones

#47

Post by tln » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 3:04 PM UTC

bla3 wrote: post #43

This is super cool tech. But I can't help thinking that this shows that the Pixel camera lead must be someone with an engineering background who got nerd sniped by this problem because it's cool and hard to do. Someone with a product background would've focused on something less niche. On the other hand, some people who like Google like it because it still sometimes works on geeky, cool, fun stuff instead of being su…

My impression is that night sight as a feature has been pretty impactful in the market. As in, people buy them on this feature alone

Re: Astrophotography with Night Sight on Pixel Phones

#48

Post by ygra » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 3:34 PM UTC

SiempreViernes wrote: post #41

ygra wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO they've basically missed an opportunity here for many years. They'd be in a perfect position to offer those things, combined with a much better/larger sensor, which enables even better images. On smartphones it's a matter of necessity, as the sensor is (fairly) crappy in comparison, but on a DSLR it could still be a benefit. Personally I'd be perfectly happy to get a pre-processed DNG from the camera instead of…

While it would be nice to load some post-processing script onto the camera and get all that done by the camera without having to bother with it yourself, all that processing will cost battery life, as well as response time. Having to charge your DSLR every day is a huge cost in convenience, and making a dedicated imaging machine unresponsive would be terrible. Additionally, you are always going to move your pictures…

Yeah, it's definitely nice to get ~1000 images per battery charge. But when uploading to the PC infrequently you'll then have to sort photos into groups to process individually (something I already hate with panoramas). Personally it's something I'd rather not do, at the expense of only getting ~200 photos per charge. It's also not necessary to compromise, as those special modes would be, well, special modes. So to preserve battery I could just as well shoot raw as normal.

Re: Astrophotography with Night Sight on Pixel Phones

#49

Post by driverdan » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 3:48 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #39

I'd prefer to see Google focus on just making the Pixel line better everyday phones than working on exotic stuff like this or the motion sensor they added in the Pixel 4. Right now there's not much reason to choose a Pixel unless stock Android is your top priority.

What needs improvement? I have a Pixel 2 and it's a great everyday phone. The only thing I can think of is a bigger battery but that's a problem with every phone.

Re: Astrophotography with Night Sight on Pixel Phones

#50

Post by bla3 » Wed, Nov 27, 2019, 3:59 PM UTC

tln wrote: post #47

bla3 wrote: post #43

This is super cool tech. But I can't help thinking that this shows that the Pixel camera lead must be someone with an engineering background who got nerd sniped by this problem because it's cool and hard to do. Someone with a product background would've focused on something less niche. On the other hand, some people who like Google like it because it still sometimes works on geeky, cool, fun stuff instead of being su…

My impression is that night sight as a feature has been pretty impactful in the market. As in, people buy them on this feature alone

Night sight for normal night photography, absolutely. Taking pictures in low-light situations is common. Astrophotography on the other hand is much less common.