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Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

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Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#41

Post by raxxorrax »

bsamuels wrote: post #8

I don't get what's shocking about this. If you have a consistent history of publishing a foreign government's state secrets that damage its national security, they're gonna spy on you. And before the nitpickers jump in on me, I believe whether or not Assange actually damaged US national security by publishing leaks is a decision best left to people who actually work in national security rather than armchair bystander…

It would be wise to hold your government accountable in a democracy or you are bound to loose it. Assange released information that the evidence that started a significant war was falsified. There have been no consequences to that.

It certainly damages your national security if other countries get information about unjustly interventions by your government. So whose fault could that be?

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#42

Post by Fnoord »

bsamuels wrote: post #8

I don't get what's shocking about this. If you have a consistent history of publishing a foreign government's state secrets that damage its national security, they're gonna spy on you. And before the nitpickers jump in on me, I believe whether or not Assange actually damaged US national security by publishing leaks is a decision best left to people who actually work in national security rather than armchair bystander…

> is a decision best left to people who actually work in national security

That's like the butcher who's approving their own meat though. Yet, if they share such assessment with general public, the enemy hears it as well. A good middle ground is a commission who are bound to STFU about details but may assess the situation.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#43

Post by roywiggins »

kick wrote: post #14
darawk wrote: post #6

Of course they were. Julian Assange's explicit mission was to expose US (and other) intelligence secrets. If they weren't spying on him and his visitors they'd be derelict in their most basic of duties. I don't even know why this is a story. I don't mind Assange, and I think the counterpoint he created to state power was good, but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous.

I think I know a handful of men who'd disagree with you on the idea of the state not taking things (like privacy) that don't belong to them is "ludicrous"... "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights , that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Actually, if you go through the Declaration of In…

Assange isn't American, isn't on American soil, and people in his position have been fair game for surveillance for approximately the entire existence of America.

George Washington personally ran a spy ring: https://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/the-revolution...

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#44

Post by optimiz3 »

tspiteri wrote: post #17
darawk wrote: post #6

Of course they were. Julian Assange's explicit mission was to expose US (and other) intelligence secrets. If they weren't spying on him and his visitors they'd be derelict in their most basic of duties. I don't even know why this is a story. I don't mind Assange, and I think the counterpoint he created to state power was good, but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous.

Using that reasoning, there was no story when Klaus Fuchs was caught spying on the Manhattan Project for the Soviet Union: Of course the Soviet Union intelligence were spying on the Manhattan Project, if they weren't spying on it they'de be derelict in their most basic of duties.

Misdirection. The news is a spy was caught and who it was; not that the Soviet Union was attempting to subvert the Manhattan Project.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#45

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

whatshisface wrote: post #26
darawk wrote: post #6

Of course they were. Julian Assange's explicit mission was to expose US (and other) intelligence secrets. If they weren't spying on him and his visitors they'd be derelict in their most basic of duties. I don't even know why this is a story. I don't mind Assange, and I think the counterpoint he created to state power was good, but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous.

Every time news comes out, people say "this was obvious from the start," but every time a suggestion is made before the news has come out people say "that's crazy there is no evidence." It was not the case that he was "of course" being spied on, it was plausible that he was being spied on.

In October 2010, the day after WikiLeaks published the Iraq War Logs, the New York Times ran a front-page article that essentially painted Assange as paranoid.[1] Here's the opening:

> Julian Assange moves like a hunted man. In a noisy Ethiopian restaurant in London's rundown Paddington district, he pitches his voice barely above a whisper to foil the Western intelligence agencies he fears.

> He demands that his dwindling number of loyalists use expensive encrypted cellphones and swaps his own as other men change shirts. He checks into hotels under false names, dyes his hair, sleeps on sofas and floors, and uses cash instead of credit cards, often borrowed from friends.

This was the Times' lead article on the person who had just provided them with one of the biggest scoops in the history of the paper.

1. https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/world/24assange.html

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#47

Post by tspiteri »

optimiz3 wrote: post #44
tspiteri wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using that reasoning, there was no story when Klaus Fuchs was caught spying on the Manhattan Project for the Soviet Union: Of course the Soviet Union intelligence were spying on the Manhattan Project, if they weren't spying on it they'de be derelict in their most basic of duties.

Misdirection. The news is a spy was caught and who it was; not that the Soviet Union was attempting to subvert the Manhattan Project.

And the news here to me is that the Spanish contractor was caught spying. So while it can be argued that the US spying is no news story, the spying by the security company is.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#48

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

aisengard wrote: post #23
tspiteri wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using that reasoning, there was no story when Klaus Fuchs was caught spying on the Manhattan Project for the Soviet Union: Of course the Soviet Union intelligence were spying on the Manhattan Project, if they weren't spying on it they'de be derelict in their most basic of duties.

I mean, the story was that the Soviet Union was spying on its allies. Klaus Fuchs went to jail. All of this is pretty much accepted statecraft. Are we supposed to think that something _went wrong_ when Klaus Fuchs was caught spying and went to jail? That's what happens to spies who are caught. Hence Assange.

With the important difference being that Assange is not a spy.

Edit: Downvoted for pointing out that Assange is not a spy. I'm honestly surprised by HN.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#49

Post by jhayward »

eecc wrote: post #18
darawk wrote: post #6

Of course they were. Julian Assange's explicit mission was to expose US (and other) intelligence secrets. If they weren't spying on him and his visitors they'd be derelict in their most basic of duties. I don't even know why this is a story. I don't mind Assange, and I think the counterpoint he created to state power was good, but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous.

Uhm, Assange’s mission is to expose abuse by members of powerful organizations, directed at protecting their own positions and covering up abuses with more of the same.

Funny how he ended up being Putin's bitch and working with the GRU to throw the US presidential election to Trump then, isn't it?

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#50

Post by jhayward »

jMyles wrote: post #12
darawk wrote: post #6

Of course they were. Julian Assange's explicit mission was to expose US (and other) intelligence secrets. If they weren't spying on him and his visitors they'd be derelict in their most basic of duties. I don't even know why this is a story. I don't mind Assange, and I think the counterpoint he created to state power was good, but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous.

> but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous. I think that a healthy plurality of us here don't even really believe that the state's existence is just to begin with, much less its proclivity to spy on those seeking to shine light on its indiscretions.

> a healthy plurality of us here don't even really believe that the state's existence is just to begin with

The idea that the largest group of people on HN do not believe states should exist is straight up delusional. Why is it that you believe that it is so?

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