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Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

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Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#41

Post by eznoonze »

hangonhn wrote: post #21
nkrisc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of Chinese citizens are actual party members? Honest question, I have no idea, but if I had to wager I would guess not a very large percentage.

90 million according to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China It's hard to assume that the CCP doesn't have the mandate of the people. We just don't know one way or another since there are no free elections.

Chinese people join the CCP not because they identify with the communist ideals. They join because it gives access to a lot of resources and power that is otherwise unavailable to outsiders. It is essentially a gangster of national proportion, and behaves exactly like one, and they own the army.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#42

Post by davidwitt415 »

Mirror check on 'intense nationalism' - how many Americans supported or still support unlimited US military actions around the globe, not to mention CIA buggery? How has democratic activity slowed this down in any meaningful way in the last 20 years?

You are not as immune as you think to government propaganda, it's just easier to spot when it's another country.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#43

Post by mindgam3 »

umvi wrote: post #7

Title should read: "Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils (Chinese) Facebook Employees" At any rate, I applaud Zuckerberg for actually having a spine when it comes to China, unlike Tim Cook.

Zuck’s anti China stance has nothing to do with having a spine and everything to do with Facebook’s bottom line. He is merely using China as a very convenient punching bag and foil to deflect attention away from Facebook’s own gross abuses of power.

This is exemplified in his address on free speech several weeks ago - trying to position Facebook as a defender of American values (free speech and human rights) versus big bad China.

Make no mistake, if Zuckerberg actually cared about the values of a free society he would fix his own platform. Don’t applaud him for throwing shade at an even more authoritarian regime.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#45

Post by Consultant32452 »

davidwitt415 wrote: post #42

Mirror check on 'intense nationalism' - how many Americans supported or still support unlimited US military actions around the globe, not to mention CIA buggery? How has democratic activity slowed this down in any meaningful way in the last 20 years? You are not as immune as you think to government propaganda, it's just easier to spot when it's another country.

Obama campaigned as anti-war. So did Trump. Neither of those presidents have lived up to their campaign promises, but it seems clear to me the American people don't want to keep the most insane of US military actions going but feel powerless to stop it. The tricky part is that corporate media on both sides of the aisle never saw a war they didn't love. But that's different than the American people.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#46

Post by natechols »

davidwitt415 wrote: post #42

Mirror check on 'intense nationalism' - how many Americans supported or still support unlimited US military actions around the globe, not to mention CIA buggery? How has democratic activity slowed this down in any meaningful way in the last 20 years? You are not as immune as you think to government propaganda, it's just easier to spot when it's another country.

I think everyone here is already well aware of this, considering that some variation on this same comment gets posted repeatedly every time China's human rights issues are in the news.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#47

Post by loceng »

mindgam3 wrote: post #43
umvi wrote: post #7

Title should read: "Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils (Chinese) Facebook Employees" At any rate, I applaud Zuckerberg for actually having a spine when it comes to China, unlike Tim Cook.

Zuck’s anti China stance has nothing to do with having a spine and everything to do with Facebook’s bottom line. He is merely using China as a very convenient punching bag and foil to deflect attention away from Facebook’s own gross abuses of power. This is exemplified in his address on free speech several weeks ago - trying to position Facebook as a defender of American values (free speech and human rights) versus b…

He doesn't understand how, he's indoctrinated into it as well as his behaviour - he has personal work to do to open up his mind and heart before he'll develop the necessary empathy to see the holistic for what it is.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#48

Post by Spooky23 »

bgee wrote: post #31
Spooky23 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's to say those employee actions are not being scrutinized by others and reported back? As the US and China implement different tit for tat policies, relatives at home can be punished for the actions of relatives abroad.

I'm a Chinese national working in the US. I have never heard of this kind of punishment. Can you provide any evidence?

My post was based on recollection of this article.

China detains relatives of U.S. reporters in apparent punishment for Xinjiang coverage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-detains-relatives...

While the specific context of this was related to journalists, I would certainly take pause with respect my actions at an employer likely to bump heads and attract the attention of that government. There is an escalation of tensions, with the US and China taking hard stances on vistor visas. It's not unreasonable to be concerned about other sanctions.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#49

Post by Cookingboy »

larnmar wrote: post #27
umvi wrote: post #7

Title should read: "Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils (Chinese) Facebook Employees" At any rate, I applaud Zuckerberg for actually having a spine when it comes to China, unlike Tim Cook.

It should read “Chinese Government”, not China, too. The Chinese government was not elected by the Chinese, is not in any sense a legitimate representative of the Chinese, and has no more right to rule over China than I do. Conflating criticism of the CCP with criticism of the country that they illegitimately rule is CCP propaganda techniques 101.

What is legitimacy?

A government's job is to serve as many of its people as much as possible for as long as possible, so playing devil's advocate, why isn't the legitimacy of a government judged by how good it's doing its job vs. how it came into power?

Historically speaking there have been plenty of prosperous societies that was ruled by "illegitimate" governments (and I'm not even saying China is one), and plenty of government that was put into power by the people (actually the original, populist CCP government is one example) that ended up being disastrous.

Even if we want to always put democracy on a pedestal, how do we qualify it? Does only direct democracy count? What about representative democracy? How "representative" can it be before it's no longer democratic, i,e electoral college? Do any of those actually matter?

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#50

Post by Cookingboy »

nailer wrote: post #3

> complaints of anti-China bias Zuckerberg is quite clearly being critical of the Chinese Communist Party, who by nature of being authoritarian, have no mandate from the people of the PRC. There is no bias against China as a country, or Chinese people. Zuck is merely judging an authoritarian government for it's own actions. Shame on those who would wish to conflate the two.

>by nature of being authoritarian, have no mandate from the people of the PRC

If you have studied Chinese history you'd know the mandate does not come from it being democratically elected, but rather how good it's doing its job.

Democracy is not only a concept that's foreign to Chinese history, it's not even desired by that many people in China.

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