I am fairly certain 40% of all citizens would shift their income to a tax haven if possible.
Yup, that’s what we need to make it impossible. Don’t rely on people to act good, build a system that prevents them from acting bad.
40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year
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Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year
#42I am fairly certain 40% of all citizens would shift their income to a tax haven if possible.
That's exactly how I feel about it. I don't think "paying" taxes are something that is honorable. The money is removed from you forcefully.
I don’t think you using roads or any public service is honorable if you don’t want to contribute. Markets and wealth don’t exist without governments to enforce them.
Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year
#43Corporations already pay myriad income taxes and distributed profits (capital gains and dividends) are taxed, paid by the recipient. Corporate tax is double taxation and is inefficient. The optimal corporate tax rate is zero and I wish people would understand this. 35% corporate tax rate the US had before the tax cut was completely absurd and the only corps that paid it were small ones that didn’t have in house staff…
This is something that a lot of economists agree on: tax the rich, not the corporations. I happen to agree with it as well.
The problem is the ultra rich then leave the money in the corporations, and find ways to benefit from their company cars, company jets, and company manhattan duplex penthouse apartments above their offices that they then pay a nominal rent for.
I think that below a certain revenue (not profit), corporations should be taxed at 0%. Problem is (same with free webhosting), people take advantage and just start spinning up hundreds or thousands of corporations (real estate companies do this already for liability).
No matter how you structure it there is no way to provide tax advantages to one entity without having people game that system.
Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year
#44I am fairly certain 40% of all citizens would shift their income to a tax haven if possible.
We do. If you have a trade just charge cash in hand and post believable losses every tax return.
Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think paying taxes to the society you're profiting from is entirely reasonable. The problem is that corporations are free to profit in one country but declare those profits in another country. Corporations can do that but people can't. (What's even worse, US citizens (US "persons" even, you don't have to be a citizen for this) that live and work abroad and have nothing to do with the US, still have to pay their tax…
> What's even worse, US citizens (US "persons" even, you don't have to be a citizen for this) that live and work abroad and have nothing to do with the US, still have to pay their taxes there. That’s the price you pay to have the most powerful country in the world as a destination to which you can always retreat.
Doesn’t change the fact that US corporations aren’t so bound.
Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think paying taxes to the society you're profiting from is entirely reasonable. The problem is that corporations are free to profit in one country but declare those profits in another country. Corporations can do that but people can't. (What's even worse, US citizens (US "persons" even, you don't have to be a citizen for this) that live and work abroad and have nothing to do with the US, still have to pay their tax…
Another big issue with US taxes is that tax dollars aren't well spent. I'd be happy to pay the amount of taxes I'm currently paying in California if tax dollars were used well, but as it stands the public schools are underfunded, the highways are full of litter on the side, higher education isn't free, healthcare isn't universal, social security is underfunded, public transportation is dysfunctional, and so on.
When it comes to international corporate interest, American tax dollars are extremely well spent. The US State Department, Military, and to a degree, Intelligence Agencies do everything they can to compel favorable treatment for large American companies from every other country.
I guess it's possible that large companies have outgrown the need for US Government support internationally and figure its cheaper and more effective to lobby the leadership of countries directly. The problem is that this approach opens up Western nations to a new form of neo-colonialism. When Western "democracies" are controlled by large corporations, the door is open for the state-owned companies of China or Saudi Arabia to acquire these companies, and thus, their influence over Western nations.
Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think paying taxes to the society you're profiting from is entirely reasonable. The problem is that corporations are free to profit in one country but declare those profits in another country. Corporations can do that but people can't. (What's even worse, US citizens (US "persons" even, you don't have to be a citizen for this) that live and work abroad and have nothing to do with the US, still have to pay their tax…
> What's even worse, US citizens (US "persons" even, you don't have to be a citizen for this) that live and work abroad and have nothing to do with the US, still have to pay their taxes there. That’s the price you pay to have the most powerful country in the world as a destination to which you can always retreat.
If that was a justification then why aren't corporation's paying that price?
Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year
#48Corporations being able to book their profits wherever they find it most convenient to book them, is utterly unreasonable. They make their profits in specific markets, and should be paying their taxes there. Profits made from selling in the US should be paid in the US, profits made from selling in Germany should be paid there. The problem is, profits are the end result of a lot of complex corporate operations across…
The problem with that is the expenses are already arbitrary with international businesses. It is Hollywood accounting of making movies "never turn a profit" writ large and arguably more honest. If say Amazon UK "rents" their branding, storefront, and similiar from Amazon US the value. Essentially unfixed value goods + deductions = massive loophole. Unfixed fuzzy values are also very valuable to money launderers. It i…
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Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think paying taxes to the society you're profiting from is entirely reasonable. The problem is that corporations are free to profit in one country but declare those profits in another country. Corporations can do that but people can't. (What's even worse, US citizens (US "persons" even, you don't have to be a citizen for this) that live and work abroad and have nothing to do with the US, still have to pay their tax…
> What's even worse, US citizens (US "persons" even, you don't have to be a citizen for this) that live and work abroad and have nothing to do with the US, still have to pay their taxes there. That’s the price you pay to have the most powerful country in the world as a destination to which you can always retreat.
We are aware that is the price you have to pay. However "The United States is one of just two countries (the other being the African nation of Eritrea) that taxes individuals’ based on their citizenship".[1] That should at least give you pause to ask why, whether it is fair, and most importantly, if there is not a better solution to whatever problem this policy attempts to solve.
[1] https://taxfoundation.org/how-countries-define-their-income-...
Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, I'm down for paying taxes. It pays for my lifestyle and is propostional to my lifestyle. If I own land, that land is only valuable due to the society that land exists in. It's protected, and safe, due to public services like roads, which law enforcement, fire control folks, postal service, and ambulances drive upon. I've earned my income from a lifetime of education, starting from my public school kindergar…
I think most people would be down for paying taxes, however their main gripe, in my opinion, is that the quality of services (infrastructure, tax dollars being used for NSA spying on citizens, etc.) we're getting back for our tax dollars is dropping while taxes increase.
Taxes on regular people increases and the quality of services they provide decreases, precisely because of the tax-evading [0] behavior of the multinational corporations.
[0]: If you feel the need to point out the difference between tax-avoidance and tax-evasion then please watch this first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2q-Csk-ktc