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Half of us have quit our job because of a bad boss (2015)

fortune.com

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Re: Half of us have quit our job because of a bad boss (2015)

#41

Post by a_geeky_bro »

gamesbrainiac wrote: post #22
x220 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they instill fear?

Salami tactics. - Reduce flexibility over time - Every expense needs to be justified a hundred times - delaying approval of vacation days to the point that you take a vacation, and it is still not approved - Adding unnecessary process where none is required - Adding compromised people to the team (limited contract, needs the job desperately, needs a raise for kid's education etc) - Strict butts-on-seats policy - Cons…

Lots of these are really just someone justifying their job. Basically, you "do your job" by creating actionable items.

Re: Half of us have quit our job because of a bad boss (2015)

#42

Post by joe5150 »

smiths1999 wrote: post #38
gamesbrainiac wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salami tactics. - Reduce flexibility over time - Every expense needs to be justified a hundred times - delaying approval of vacation days to the point that you take a vacation, and it is still not approved - Adding unnecessary process where none is required - Adding compromised people to the team (limited contract, needs the job desperately, needs a raise for kid's education etc) - Strict butts-on-seats policy - Cons…

These are all legitimate issues and would certainly have me looking for another job, but I think to say these "instill fear" trivializes truly fearful situations. Being an immigrant using a coyote to cross the border into the US seems like a fearful situation and a far fetch from not getting your vacation days approved. Were you legitimately afraid during these situations?

I don't think "actually afraid for your life" is necessarily the floor for whether or not management tactics are fear-based. I can easily see a lot of these problems, in a certain environment, originating as a means of making people fearful of workplace instability.

Re: Half of us have quit our job because of a bad boss (2015)

#43

Post by Infinitesimus »

m00dy wrote: post #16

There are a lot of people over 40 in tech and some of them are ignorant. They try to manage something they don't know or can't fully understand. I think that's one of the reasons.

That ageism is unnecessary here. You could equally say there are a lot of people under 40 and a lot of them are ignorant and do not understand business goals.

Experience is a pretty good teacher in a lot of cases and a good manager must handle the balance between their own knowledge limits and learning how to enable their team effectively use their varying skills to deliver results.

Re: Half of us have quit our job because of a bad boss (2015)

#44

Post by 1123581321 »

gamesbrainiac wrote: post #27
x220 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be interested in reading this: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2011/10/14/the-gervais-principle-...

That is very long, what is the TLDR?

The thesis is a company employs Sociopaths, Losers, and Clueless. The Losers accept whatever quid pro quo they get in their current position. The Clueless struggle to distinguish themselves from Losers. The Sociopaths talk to each other in coded language during conversations that the unwitting Clueless believe they’re participating in. The shared understanding of the Sociopaths, who have a real ability to navigate the corporate structure, keeps the Clueless from advancing. The Losers are smarter than the Clueless because they perceive the Sociopaths’ game is unwinnable and don’t play. It’s all illustrated with characters from The Office. It’s not really instructive, but it’s a great read.

Re: Half of us have quit our job because of a bad boss (2015)

#45

Post by ISL »

mattsfrey wrote: post #39
eledumb wrote: post #4

Not everyone has the freedom to quit their job, small towns, limited skill sets, transportation issues, family issues, etc. etc. etc, otherwise the number would probably be at 75%.

Would likely be 100 if you remove all factors keeping somebody from quitting a job.

Only if all bosses are bad :).

Re: Half of us have quit our job because of a bad boss (2015)

#46

Post by nickserv »

gamesbrainiac wrote: post #22
x220 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they instill fear?

Salami tactics. - Reduce flexibility over time - Every expense needs to be justified a hundred times - delaying approval of vacation days to the point that you take a vacation, and it is still not approved - Adding unnecessary process where none is required - Adding compromised people to the team (limited contract, needs the job desperately, needs a raise for kid's education etc) - Strict butts-on-seats policy - Cons…

Seems like par for the course for a startup transitioning to a more established company.

I've lived that a few times, now I know the warning signs and bail as soon as possible.

However, I wouldn't call these "scare tactics". In fact, there globally weren't any scare tactics for developers in any company I've worked for: they're simply too difficult to find, good ones especially.

Scare tactics is when you are a single mom afraid of losing your minimum wage job and knowing unemployment won't cover your expenses because your deadbeat ex isn't paying alimony on your 2 kids. That's when your boss starts touching you...

Re: Half of us have quit our job because of a bad boss (2015)

#47

Post by mjfl »

ISL wrote: post #45
mattsfrey wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would likely be 100 if you remove all factors keeping somebody from quitting a job.

Only if all bosses are bad :).

But what if all employees are humans. And like humans, they are irrational in their criteria of what makes a boss "good". For example, they want bosses that never demand work from them and let them go home early every day. Even if they get this, their standards will adjust and they will take the same level of issue with smaller things. Being a boss and attempting to be liked by your employees is a lost cause and foolish endeavor.

Re: Half of us have quit our job because of a bad boss (2015)

#48

Post by sorum »

Funny how little things change. In their 1999 book "First, Break All the Rules", Gallup laid out their findings from over 1M interviews that:

- People join companies for the vision, brand, comp etc...but they leave because of their direct manager

- The direct manager determines how long an employee stays and how productive he/she is during their tenure

The 2 main parts of the book look at:

a) how you attract and retain the most talented employees, what things matter to them the most (compensation didn't make the cut)

b) traits of great managers

Book still holds up, worth a read: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50937.First_Break_All_th...

Re: Half of us have quit our job because of a bad boss (2015)

#49

Post by gamesbrainiac »

nickserv wrote: post #46
gamesbrainiac wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salami tactics. - Reduce flexibility over time - Every expense needs to be justified a hundred times - delaying approval of vacation days to the point that you take a vacation, and it is still not approved - Adding unnecessary process where none is required - Adding compromised people to the team (limited contract, needs the job desperately, needs a raise for kid's education etc) - Strict butts-on-seats policy - Cons…

Seems like par for the course for a startup transitioning to a more established company. I've lived that a few times, now I know the warning signs and bail as soon as possible. However, I wouldn't call these "scare tactics". In fact, there globally weren't any scare tactics for developers in any company I've worked for: they're simply too difficult to find, good ones especially. Scare tactics is when you are a single…

Like I said, there are more but I dont want to mention them publicly.

Re: Half of us have quit our job because of a bad boss (2015)

#50

Post by raihansaputra »

mjfl wrote: post #47
ISL wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if all bosses are bad :).

But what if all employees are humans. And like humans, they are irrational in their criteria of what makes a boss "good". For example, they want bosses that never demand work from them and let them go home early every day. Even if they get this, their standards will adjust and they will take the same level of issue with smaller things. Being a boss and attempting to be liked by your employees is a lost cause and fool…

But this is not true. If this is true no reputable company would have employees staying >3 years. If you're hired at a reputable company >1 year, chances are you do get offers or you have a greater chance to get it. Good bosses are rare, but they do exist.
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