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Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

gitlab.com

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Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#41

Post by throwawaypolicy »

cyberferret wrote: post #34

While I acknowledge the pragmatic approach taken by the company to protect their user's data, I am curious as to how this will play out over time. Factors such as longer term travel or working vacations to these countries by their employees? Or, What about if one of their employees is married (or wants to get married) to a legal resident of one of these countries? How far removed does the employee have to be from thi…

I've been told (at a different company based in a different country) "don't bring your work laptop to China, don't bring materials to China without authorization, we'll provide what is effectively a burner device for whatever you are bringing to China (I believe they re-used them as different employees went to China)".

I imagine Gitlab would have a similar but less restrictive policy, "don't bring a work laptop to China, ...".

I don't see why a policy against residing/working in China would care about who you are married to or where they live.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#42

Post by wolco »

type0 wrote: post #9

@edjdev wrote There is an unacceptably high risk that these nations may apply pressure to individuals living within their borders with sensitive data access (based their role at GitLab). Given the current australian law changes, the rampant israelian IT spy sector and despotic Belarus position on human rights, it's surprising that they only mention China and Russia. This whole debacle doesn't look good and makes one…

Debacle? The week hasn't even started yet. Let's take a moment to breathe.

China and Russia are known to put pressure or watch/listen on nationals who work in key positions in foreign companies.

As US allys Australia, Israel don't pose the same threat. A lot of information that could be gained would be available through the US government and shared with the those parties if there was a need.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#43

Post by [deleted] »

type0 wrote: post #37
angry_octet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have legal authority to prevent you from resigning. Also, the proposed anti-boycott rules have been widely criticized as unconstitutional, unworkable and ludicrously against the conservatives free speech pronouncements. Unlikely they would get support from Senate cross bench.

They could compel your employer not to accept the resignation before the correct procedures are done and you have completed the task.

[deleted]

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#44

Post by cyberferret »

throwawaypolicy wrote: post #41
cyberferret wrote: post #34

While I acknowledge the pragmatic approach taken by the company to protect their user's data, I am curious as to how this will play out over time. Factors such as longer term travel or working vacations to these countries by their employees? Or, What about if one of their employees is married (or wants to get married) to a legal resident of one of these countries? How far removed does the employee have to be from thi…

I've been told (at a different company based in a different country) "don't bring your work laptop to China, don't bring materials to China without authorization, we'll provide what is effectively a burner device for whatever you are bringing to China (I believe they re-used them as different employees went to China)". I imagine Gitlab would have a similar but less restrictive policy, "don't bring a work laptop to Ch…

Consider this scenario: Loyal and long time high performing Gitlab employee Bob, is happily married to Su, who originally hails from China. They live and work in the US. All good.

Until Su's ageing parents back home succumb to ill health and she decides that the family need to move back to China to care for them for maybe one or two years - perhaps longer.

Bob then has to make the choice between (a) resigning his job or (b) being forced into a long distance relationship with lots of travel between China and the US, or (c) divorcing his wife.

When company policy gets in the way of important life decisions, I think it is a dangerous line to walk.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#45

Post by crispinb »

type0 wrote: post #37
angry_octet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have legal authority to prevent you from resigning. Also, the proposed anti-boycott rules have been widely criticized as unconstitutional, unworkable and ludicrously against the conservatives free speech pronouncements. Unlikely they would get support from Senate cross bench.

They could compel your employer not to accept the resignation before the correct procedures are done and you have completed the task.

Executive powers in Aus aren't that strong - they'd have to pass a law to give themselves that specific power. I don't think there's one to permit this now, though I'm no expert and there are many obscure laws.

That's the good(ish) news - the bad is that restraints on the passing of bad law are generally pretty weak in the absence of a hostile Senate. This is particularly true with the current feeble opposition, and even more so given the general atmosphere of cowering obeisance that the major parties have allowed (or encouraged) to develop around any legislation involving the word 'security'.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#46

Post by type0 »

angry_octet wrote: post #30
LilBytes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised we (Australia) aren't already on more of these lists. After having this discussion with my manager and colleagues (the conversation with my manager was in my interview process where I bluntly stated if I was asked to comply with anything from this law, I'd immediately resign, my manager also agreed). Everyone I've spoken to agreed we'd immediately resign since it was the only potential option to protect…

Since National Security Letters exist, blocking all employees from the US would also be logical. Same for running anything on third-party hardware. There needs to be a more effective response than Hari Kiri.

> Since National Security Letters exist, blocking all employees from the US would also be logical.

Sure, it would be, especially for companies located in neutral countries, but since US influence is so strong everywhere almost all over the world that's also practically impossible. "Every animal is equal but some animals are more equal than others"

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#47

Post by Iv »

I don't understand what I am reading, I feel I am missing some context... Is it about being afraid the Chinese and Russian state will spy on user data if some employees are located in those countries? Or were there updates to their laws that made it mandatory to open databases to the state if an employee is located in these countries?

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#48

Post by Iv »

Waterluvian wrote: post #39

Super ignorant question that I'm sure has an obvious answer because nobody else is asking: How is this not a form of Japanese internment camps? Russia and China are a problem so we block Russian and Chinese citizens? Also, wouldn't I just have my Russian agents living and working in Sweden or Canada or something?

Well first, it is not a camp. No one is putting no one in prison there.

Second, a company will want to abide by the laws of the countries it operates in. Having an employee somewhere may, nowadays, count as "operating in" that country. If they are not comfortable with some state laws, that makes sense to avoid these countries. Just like the companies that say they can't operate in Europe because of GDPR.

Third, if you identify one of your employee as a Russian agent living abroad, you fire them and Russia is in the wrong there. But if you hire a Russian and that makes you legally forced to share some data, you would be in the wrong to not comply.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#49

Post by pnako »

angry_octet wrote: post #30
LilBytes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised we (Australia) aren't already on more of these lists. After having this discussion with my manager and colleagues (the conversation with my manager was in my interview process where I bluntly stated if I was asked to comply with anything from this law, I'd immediately resign, my manager also agreed). Everyone I've spoken to agreed we'd immediately resign since it was the only potential option to protect…

Since National Security Letters exist, blocking all employees from the US would also be logical. Same for running anything on third-party hardware. There needs to be a more effective response than Hari Kiri.

It's the same in France, and many other western countries.

I think it's just the usual "Australians not realizing they live in a bubble", and kindly warning the rest of the world about laws or practices that have already been in place in our countries for twenty years.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#50

Post by dilyevsky »

type0 wrote: post #32
dredmorbius wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this is driven more by surveillance or sabotage risks posed by employee access rather than jurisdictional risks. Australian law is likely to have little impact on what an SRE or support engineer might be able to do. Australia having an established practice of recruiting and placing enterprise surveillance moles would. China and Russia have some history with this latter. Though one might say similarly of the…

Alright, I also thought about Israel and AU at first but this thing is so political that no way can they include US allies in there because gov wouldn't approve this sort of thing. To my eye, american companies are becoming more and more like chinese companies in the amount of control governments can extort on them and that is highly troublesome.

I know of a couple major us companies that do include Israel along with other usual suspects but they don’t spray about it on the internet. There’s also growing concern regarding what corporate equipment you can take across us border so there’s that.
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