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Can You Overdose on Happiness?

nautil.us

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Re: Can You Overdose on Happiness?

#41

Post by DiffEq »

tombert wrote: post #35

There's a quote in Bojack Horseman that has a similar theme: > I guess I got a happy ending, but every happy ending has the day after the happy ending, right? And the day after that. So the wedding was so much fun. It was the happiest day of my life. But, you know, what does that say about all the days I have left? I've always liked that quote, because it is something that gets a bit glossed over in books and movies,…

This is absolutely not so. Just because one flies high one day does not mean if you fly low the next day that it is negative at all. Because hey - you are FLYING! There are different joys in all levels of flight (or to leave the analogy, of life). Additionally IF one does have an exceptionally negative day, it can be used to even more appreciate the exceptionally happy days. And another way to understand this is that the happy times, if truly pure and happy, never lose the positive buoyancy they shed on the rest of your days; so in that way those days have raised your overall abundance of life.

Re: Can You Overdose on Happiness?

#42

Post by tombert »

DiffEq wrote: post #41
tombert wrote: post #35

There's a quote in Bojack Horseman that has a similar theme: > I guess I got a happy ending, but every happy ending has the day after the happy ending, right? And the day after that. So the wedding was so much fun. It was the happiest day of my life. But, you know, what does that say about all the days I have left? I've always liked that quote, because it is something that gets a bit glossed over in books and movies,…

This is absolutely not so. Just because one flies high one day does not mean if you fly low the next day that it is negative at all. Because hey - you are FLYING! There are different joys in all levels of flight (or to leave the analogy, of life). Additionally IF one does have an exceptionally negative day, it can be used to even more appreciate the exceptionally happy days. And another way to understand this is that…

> Just because one flies high one day does not mean if you fly low the next day that it is negative at all. Because hey - you are FLYING!

Sure, and maybe that mentality works for you, but I feel like a lot of people are more sensitive to differentials than actual quality-of-life.

For example, if I get a big raise at work, then that's great; I will probably be happy for awhile, and after that, I'll probably equalize to more or less the level of happiness I was before. Imagine that I then lose that raise, going back to the same salary that I started with. I would probably be pretty depressed over that, despite the fact that I wouldn't, in practice, be any worse than how I started.

I'm not saying it's rational, I'm just saying that's how I (and I think a lot of people) would react.

Re: Can You Overdose on Happiness?

#43

Post by wfn »

vinceguidry wrote: post #34

Some 8 years or so ago I experimented with triggering mood changes using a meditative technique. I had long been doing 'centering' meditative exercises so that I could bring more focus and clarity to seated practice. I wanted something more practical that would affect my everyday life. I eventually settled on two 'states'. A 'centered' state and a 'joyful' one. Any time I noticed myself outside of one of the two stat…

I am interested in trying something akin to those mood-modulating techniques of yours. Can you perhaps elaborate on them a bit, or give some pointers where to look? Is this something which can be incorporated into mindfulness practice, or not really?

Thanks! :)

Re: Can You Overdose on Happiness?

#44

Post by program_whiz »

tosser0001 wrote: post #36

I knew a guy who I always thought was basically the opposite of clinically depressed - I thought of him as "clinically happy". In some ways I was a bit jealous of how he never seemed to let things get to him. But on the other hand, he would let certain aspects of his life fall apart in ways that seemed to me his perpetual good humor perhaps didn't allow him to address. If he had felt a bit more discomfort I think he…

Totally get what you're saying, have known people like that. But then it begs the question -- end up in a better place for what reason? If being "in a better place" wasn't going to improve how he felt internally, why bother? I think its hard for us normies to understand people like that, because its so obvious how it would be "better" to have more money, stability, etc, but perhaps the definition of enlightenment is to be truly happy regardless of circumstance. If that's the case, is there really a reason to do those things (if it truly won't change your internal state in any way)?

Like if you knew that no job or money you made would ever lead to any fulfillment of any kind, and you would be equally happy without the job / money, would you still do it, just because its a "better situation" (how we define better is again tricky here)...

This is extreme, but there's an old zen koan about a teacher who tells his servant to leave him alone while he drinks tea, as his house burns down. He then walks back to see it burned down, and no one can understand why he did that, and he says something like "I was enjoying my tea". The house was as meaningless as if someone had said "if you don't come quick a leaf will blow off your patio" -- totally meaningless and of no impact to your present mood.

Re: Can You Overdose on Happiness?

#45

Post by IpV8 »

vinceguidry wrote: post #34

Some 8 years or so ago I experimented with triggering mood changes using a meditative technique. I had long been doing 'centering' meditative exercises so that I could bring more focus and clarity to seated practice. I wanted something more practical that would affect my everyday life. I eventually settled on two 'states'. A 'centered' state and a 'joyful' one. Any time I noticed myself outside of one of the two stat…

Teach me too

Re: Can You Overdose on Happiness?

#46

Post by UnFleshedOne »

tombert wrote: post #42
DiffEq wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely not so. Just because one flies high one day does not mean if you fly low the next day that it is negative at all. Because hey - you are FLYING! There are different joys in all levels of flight (or to leave the analogy, of life). Additionally IF one does have an exceptionally negative day, it can be used to even more appreciate the exceptionally happy days. And another way to understand this is that…

> Just because one flies high one day does not mean if you fly low the next day that it is negative at all. Because hey - you are FLYING! Sure, and maybe that mentality works for you, but I feel like a lot of people are more sensitive to differentials than actual quality-of-life. For example, if I get a big raise at work, then that's great; I will probably be happy for awhile, and after that, I'll probably equalize t…

Hedonic adaptation works both ways, you would normally equalize to the same level after the cut, so it is a good thing.

And if you keep that process in mind and maintain perspective, you can flatten both bursts of happiness and bouts of depression. Paradoxically, this might actually raise your settled level of happiness.

Re: Can You Overdose on Happiness?

#47

Post by tombert »

UnFleshedOne wrote: post #46
tombert wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because one flies high one day does not mean if you fly low the next day that it is negative at all. Because hey - you are FLYING! Sure, and maybe that mentality works for you, but I feel like a lot of people are more sensitive to differentials than actual quality-of-life. For example, if I get a big raise at work, then that's great; I will probably be happy for awhile, and after that, I'll probably equalize t…

Hedonic adaptation works both ways, you would normally equalize to the same level after the cut, so it is a good thing. And if you keep that process in mind and maintain perspective, you can flatten both bursts of happiness and bouts of depression. Paradoxically, this might actually raise your settled level of happiness.

I don't disagree with that at all; as I've gotten older I've tried to keep that mentality in mind, especially when I'm sad.

Re: Can You Overdose on Happiness?

#48

Post by vinceguidry »

vinceguidry wrote: post #34

Some 8 years or so ago I experimented with triggering mood changes using a meditative technique. I had long been doing 'centering' meditative exercises so that I could bring more focus and clarity to seated practice. I wanted something more practical that would affect my everyday life. I eventually settled on two 'states'. A 'centered' state and a 'joyful' one. Any time I noticed myself outside of one of the two stat…

I'll reply once to my own comment to the three requests for tutelage with the same thing I sent in the one person that emailed me.

The technique isn't particularly hard to develop. I used hand gestures. Hold your hands in the gesture and focus on the desired mood. Best done initially when you are only slightly 'off' from the desired mood. Rinse and repeat until you can do it more readily and in situations that are further away from the desired one.

The hard part is in remembering to do it, and in maintaining the patience to keep at it. If I hadn't already had years of meditation experience by the time I came up with this idea, I don't think I would have been able to follow through.

I used the teachings of George Gurdjieff to help me reach a place where I could rely on my ability to remember such things at the time in which I need to remember them. PDF link follows, however not the one I used. I personally read the first few chapters of his first book, Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, which is an impossibly dense read that communicates a stupidly simple message.

http://www.gurdjiefffourthway.org/pdf/SELF-REMEMBERING.pdf

Re: Can You Overdose on Happiness?

#49

Post by otakucode »

This is a very difficult issue. It appears that the doctors had to rely on the patients own evaluation of his state, which is very problematic. The point at which the patient smiled wide and said he felt euphoric very well could have just been an absence of his normal mental problems. If you have anxiety, and it is taken away, yes, you feel euphoric. Because you don't know what you have been missing, and when you reach 'normal' it seems amazing. I had a similar experience when I first started treatment for social anxiety disorder. I very quickly came to realize that something I didn't even know what a problem or even knew it COULD be a problem had ruled my life for as long as I could remember. I had been warned that there could be sexual side effects from the medication. However, what had been described was lack of sexual interest, inability to climax, things like that. Yet what I experienced was the most intense spine-chilling toe-curling orgasms of wonder I'd ever had in my life. I explained this to my doctor and she let me know I was just having normal orgasms finally. I never could have guessed it before, but my pleasure level even during orgasm was markedly lower due to anxiety (even with masturbation).

Do not count on people with anxiety being able to recognize either anxiety or what they're "supposed to" feel like. It sounded to me like the doctor was afraid, actually afraid, of making the patient feel good. This sounds to me like a disgusting, cancerous viewpoint grown out of centuries of Protestant Work Ethic nonsense. Our stark, desperate fear of the destructive nature of pleasure is backed by almost nothing, and it benefits no one. When pleasure is paired with some sort of drawback - then point to the drawback. Not the pleasure as some kind of "it must be bad" that should be self-evident to post-Industrial era people. The whole 'deny the body and animal urges' notion was invented and promoted to get people into repetitive, grueling low-pay factory work and nothing more.

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