Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says • Hacker News Board

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#41

Post by weaksauce » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

AndrewBissell wrote: post #17

partiallypro wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was taken off of suicide watch, so he had all the materials he needed to kill himself. Also...every person I've read with working knowledge of that prison has stressed the gross negligence and incompetence there.

This was the same prison that somehow held El Chapo, a serial jailbreaker, in custody throughout his trial. They can be competent when actually motivated to do so.

fun fact, one of el chapo's attornies signed epstein's trust creation certificate in the days before epstein died.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#42

Post by x220 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

bsamuels wrote: post #5

I'm fascinated by the idea that someone could have killed and successfully covered up a murder this high profile. How do you handle the guards? How do you keep the other inmates quiet? Can you get away with bribing a single guard or is a larger operation needed? If you bribe people, how do you get the money to them? How do you keep them quiet when the inevitable investigation happens? I don't think it's impossible, b…

Bribe the two guards with cash. Threaten to kill them and their families if they talk. It's pretty straightforward. Most people think that they are good people and would do the right thing in this situation, even though most people have no reason whatsoever to believe that they would act morally right if it became a serious sacrifice.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#43

Post by hurrdurr2 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

It sure was convenient for a lot of high profile people that this guy is dead.

The cameras happened to malfunction on that day... guy got taken off suicide watch. Also his cell mate was an ex-cop who looks like he could snap people in half without trying. I mean come on.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#44

Post by AnimalMuppet » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

justicezyx wrote: post #7

bsamuels wrote: post #5

I'm fascinated by the idea that someone could have killed and successfully covered up a murder this high profile. How do you handle the guards? How do you keep the other inmates quiet? Can you get away with bribing a single guard or is a larger operation needed? If you bribe people, how do you get the money to them? How do you keep them quiet when the inevitable investigation happens? I don't think it's impossible, b…

Remember what Hilter said before?

No, I don't. Could you be more specific, rather than just hinting?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#45

Post by DanBC » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #3

mikece wrote: post #2

I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…

Epstein was taken off suicide watch though. Edit: the rate of suicide is still pretty darn low, and lots of other stuff worth looking in to. Just pointing out that he wasn't on suicide watch at the time.

> the rate of suicide is still pretty darn low,

What is being counted, and how is it being counted?

For example, what has to happen for it to be counted as a death by suicide in that prison? Is it enough for the self injurious act have to occur in the prison, or does the person have to die in the prison?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#46

Post by jolesf » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

This is a rabbit hole that I'm not endorsing just sharing the link https://twitter.com/LibertyBlitz/status/1148259553621864449

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#47

Post by octopoc » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

542458 wrote: post #19

mikece wrote: post #2

I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…

> killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility Ken White (famous-ish lawyer and notable internet personality) puts it this way: "But your assessment of plausibility is based on your assumptions about how the system works. Those assumptions are, mostly, wrong — naive Dick-Wolf-level law-enforcement-are-competent-good-guys stuff". Prisons, particularly american prisons, are full of…

> Epstein had also been taken off suicide watch nine days earlier.

That's a big reason why this is so suspicious.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#48

Post by snagglegaggle » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #40

snagglegaggle wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The prison where Epstein died was understaffed, and the guards tasked with watching him had no training on suicide watches. This could have been intentional, fyi.

I would wager that those same conditions were true long before Epstein ever set foot in there as well.

Apparently as Epstein arrived or shortly before his death the guards were rotated and two with very little suicide watch experience were present. One was also caught sleeping?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#49

Post by olivermarks » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

Whitney Webb has written exhaustively on Epstein at mintpressnews. Julie K Brown and others at the Miami Herald have been on the Epstein case for a decade and for a corporate media firm done a good job with investigative journalism. https://youtu.be/uQbndmXIkKQ

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#50

Post by mc32 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 4:37 PM UTC

542458 wrote: post #34

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Dr. Michael Baden, one of the world’s leading forensic pathologists, viewed Jeffrey Epstein’s body and was present at the autopsy, which was held the day after Epstein was found dead at the notorious Metropolitan Correctional Center in downtown Manhattan. It looks like he was at least present at the autopsy

You're right, I was incorrect there - I was confused because he wasn't on the medical team for the autopsy. Looks like he was there as an observer, being paid by Epstein's family - which also introduces a fairly significant conflict of interest.

Why is it a massive conflict of interest from the family side but not from the state side (their pathologists)?

Presumably they both care about careers and reputation.