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Zen and the Art of Software Maintenance

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Re: Zen and the Art of Software Maintenance

#41
post #39

After I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I went and bought myself a ‘71 Honda CB350, almost the exact bike Pirsig rode in his book. I found that fixing this motorcycle, taking it apart, fixing internal component, figuring out how everything ties together, and upgrading worn out or otherwise non-functional components, and putting it all back together, felt extraordinarily similar to my day job as a soft…

And yet, even after seeing firsthand that computer programming is "extraordinarily similar" to the work of a vehicle mechanic, you still refer to it as "software engineering ". Do we think it has anything in common with engineering? Why not call your work something like "software mechanic" or "software artisan"? What is with the continued need for programmers to try to aspire to engineering, while not actually being…

To engineer something is, apparently, by definition, to "design, build, and maintain [a physical thing]".

What I do as a developer is "design, build, and maintain" some software, and while it may not be physical, the use of the software is a physical activity. In this way, software has a physical existence at the very end of the process, same as a bridge or other object, though you just touch or fiddle with it through an intermediary physical object.

I'm not sure I see why someone would be upset about use of the term engineer, unless they are an engineer and somehow see developers as 'other' and it makes them angry that someone may be intruding into what they perceive as some private club.

Besides, I didn't decide to be called a "Software Engineer", that was a title bestowed upon me by a company. Before that I called myself a "programmer" and that's what I tell people I am. Now that I know "software engineer" might annoy someone and/or make me seem loftier / more worth taking seriously, perhaps I'll start calling myself an engineer.

Re: Zen and the Art of Software Maintenance

#42
post #40
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally love and revere the book (ZATAOMM), and have read it multiple times. Then again, I am super-detail-oriented, so that makes sense to me, because IMHO that’s the kind of audience for whom Pirsig wrote the book. It _is_ a book about the nature of quality, after all, and Pirsig spent four years writing it, with the aid of PostIt notes all over the walls to organize it. Not all people are detail-oriented enough…

I agree with you, it’s a fantastic book, and not really about motorcycles at all. (If memory serves, Pirsig used note cards or slips of paper to assemble this ambitious work. Post-It’s were first sold in 1977; the book was published in 1974.) Those who have an open mind and want to try the book should find the 10th anniversary edition; the author’s afterword explains some things that some readers found elusive. Pirsi…

> Pirsig used note cards or slips of paper

Ah, yes, my mistake. In my memory I confused index cards with PostIt notes.

> and not really about motorcycles at all

It's Zen, but it's not about Zen; it describes motorcycle maintenance, but it's not about motorcycle maintenance.

These are just a vehicle (no pun intended) for Pirsig to show us the inside of his post-apocalyptic mind, as far as he could remember once being who he called Phaedrus before they zapped him.

I found the book a multidimensional view of Pirsig's current and previous mental state and philosophy, just like the description of a computer software architecture is a multidimensional view of the architecture, neither and none of which can be described by a mere linear narrative.

It (ZATAOMM) is part philosophy, part memoir, part attack on what he calls the Church of Reason, part description of insanity, and more things I can't think of right now. No wonder it took him 4 years to pull together all those threads of consciousness, some of which were very damaged indeed.

Although, like another commenter noted, just spending 4 years on writing a book doesn't mean it automatically deserves accolades - and I agree with that observation - someone who reads it with even a fraction of the patience and insight with which it was written, might be tempted to award accolades after all.

Re: Zen and the Art of Software Maintenance

#43
post #39

After I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I went and bought myself a ‘71 Honda CB350, almost the exact bike Pirsig rode in his book. I found that fixing this motorcycle, taking it apart, fixing internal component, figuring out how everything ties together, and upgrading worn out or otherwise non-functional components, and putting it all back together, felt extraordinarily similar to my day job as a soft…

And yet, even after seeing firsthand that computer programming is "extraordinarily similar" to the work of a vehicle mechanic, you still refer to it as "software engineering ". Do we think it has anything in common with engineering? Why not call your work something like "software mechanic" or "software artisan"? What is with the continued need for programmers to try to aspire to engineering, while not actually being…

While I quite like the term artisan in some ways, mechanics do not build new things. You could call a maintainer a digital mechanic if you really wanted I suppose.

From my perspective software engineering will become more like engineering is now over time, just as engineering itself has become more rule bound and safety conscious over time, presumably since around the start of the industrial revolution.

The term engineering carries gravitas because getting it wrong is a big deal, and its becoming apparent the same is true when software goes wrong.

Re: Zen and the Art of Software Maintenance

#44

After I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I went and bought myself a ‘71 Honda CB350, almost the exact bike Pirsig rode in his book. I found that fixing this motorcycle, taking it apart, fixing internal component, figuring out how everything ties together, and upgrading worn out or otherwise non-functional components, and putting it all back together, felt extraordinarily similar to my day job as a soft…

That is very cool, I've owned a few bikes (all Japanese) with years from 1991 to 2013. It has been fascinating to compare how carbs evolved through CDI to ECUs, and how bikes are designed to be somewhat maintainable while being more complex than ever. I don't think I'll dare get into the gearbox any time soon though, the tolerances on everything now are just crazy.

Re: Zen and the Art of Software Maintenance

#45
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep arguing that the author is obsessed with quality, and therefore the book is imbued with an abundance of it. Quality is totally subjective. Taking four years to write a book and obsessing over quality is really not a badge of honor in and of itself.

You misunderstand defined's post. He's not saying that ZATAOMM is a high quality book, because the author was obsessed with ensuring that his book was of high quality. If that was the case, you would be (mostly) right, as there is a subjective aspect to determining quality. No. ZATAOMM is a book about the philosophical concept of "Quality". What is "Quality"? What do we mean when we say the word "quality"? How does t…

Thank you for explaining that. You are exactly right.

I really should have spelled it Quality, to show that I meant the philosophy of Quality rather than its more mundane interpretation.

At the same time, in an interview with Pirsig that I read somewhere, IIRC he did rather archly claim something to the effect that the book had better be high quality, considering its subject matter.

I tried to find that interview, but could only come up with this piece [1].

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2006/nov/19/fiction

Re: Zen and the Art of Software Maintenance

#46

After I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I went and bought myself a ‘71 Honda CB350, almost the exact bike Pirsig rode in his book. I found that fixing this motorcycle, taking it apart, fixing internal component, figuring out how everything ties together, and upgrading worn out or otherwise non-functional components, and putting it all back together, felt extraordinarily similar to my day job as a soft…

I hope you used genuine honda parts and didn't use a piece of beer can to shim anything.

Re: Zen and the Art of Software Maintenance

#47
post #39

After I read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I went and bought myself a ‘71 Honda CB350, almost the exact bike Pirsig rode in his book. I found that fixing this motorcycle, taking it apart, fixing internal component, figuring out how everything ties together, and upgrading worn out or otherwise non-functional components, and putting it all back together, felt extraordinarily similar to my day job as a soft…

And yet, even after seeing firsthand that computer programming is "extraordinarily similar" to the work of a vehicle mechanic, you still refer to it as "software engineering ". Do we think it has anything in common with engineering? Why not call your work something like "software mechanic" or "software artisan"? What is with the continued need for programmers to try to aspire to engineering, while not actually being…

From the book there are levels of "awareness" as a mechanic.

The part where he described "mechanic's feel" was particularly interesting, and there are definite analogs with respect to software engineering.

There’s one psychomotor gumption trap, muscular insensitivity, which accounts for some real damage. It results in part from lack of kinesthesia, a failure to realize that although the externals of a cycle are rugged, inside the engine are delicate precision parts which can be easily damaged by muscular insensitivity. There’s what’s called "mechanic’s feel," which is very obvious to those who know what it is, but hard to describe to those who don’t; and when you see someone working on a machine who doesn’t have it, you tend to suffer with the machine. The mechanic’s feel comes from a deep inner kinesthetic feeling for the elasticity of materials. Some materials, like ceramics, have very little, so that when you thread a porcelain fitting you’re very careful not to apply great pressures. Other materials, like steel, have tremendous elasticity, more than rubber, but in a range in which, unless you’re working with large mechanical forces, the elasticity isn’t apparent. With nuts and bolts you’re in the range of large mechanical forces and you should understand that within these ranges metals are elastic. When you take up a nut there’s a point called "finger-tight" where there’s contact but no takeup of elasticity. Then there’s "snug," in which the easy surface elasticity is taken up. Then there’s a range called "tight," in which all the elasticity is taken up. The force required to reach these three points is different for each size of nut and bolt, and different for lubricated bolts and for locknuts. The forces are different for steel and cast iron and brass and aluminum and plastics and ceramics. But a person with mechanic’s feel knows when something’s tight and stops. A person without it goes right on past and strips the threads or breaks the assembly.

A "mechanic’s feel" implies not only an understanding for the elasticity of metal but for its softness. The insides of a motorcycle contain surfaces that are precise in some cases to as little as one ten-thousandth of an inch. If you drop them or get dirt on them or scratch them or bang them with a hammer they’ll lose that precision. It’s important to understand that the metal behind the surfaces can normally take great shock and stress but that the surfaces themselves cannot. When handling precision parts that are stuck or difficult to manipulate, a person with mechanic’s feel will avoid damaging the surfaces and work with his tools on the nonprecision surfaces of the same part whenever possible. If he must work on the surfaces themselves, he’ll always use softer surfaces to work them with. Brass hammers, plastic hammers, wood hammers, rubber hammers and lead hammers are all available for this work. Use them. Vise jaws can be fitted with plastic and copper and lead faces. Use these too. Handle precision parts gently. You’ll never be sorry. If you have a tendency to bang things around, take more time and try to develop a little more respect for the accomplishment that a precision part represents.

Re: Zen and the Art of Software Maintenance

#48

Everyone in our circle of nerds recommends this book and all three times I tried to read it I found it absolutely unbearable. It collects dust in a donation box that I haven’t mustered the strength to carry down to goodwill. Does anyone else share this sentiment? Did you ever crack the reason why so many love it? Obviously taste is subjective and we are not all supposed to like everything but I’ve always felt like th…

>Obviously taste is subjective

Subjective as in it's up to the individual person whether it likes or doesn't like something.

But it can also be of objectively variable quality (eg. someone liking Vanilla Ice's work who can't stand Bach or Coltrane).

Taste is not something passive and "everything goes" just because it's subjective. It's also something that can be cultivated (even in food -- imaging someone crazy about Hot Pockets, McDonalds and Taco Bell, who doesn't like cooked food because it "tastes bad"). It's a little heresy to say that someone's individual taste is not sacrosanct but can be objectively crap in the US, but it's much more acceptable in good ole Europe.

Re: Zen and the Art of Software Maintenance

#49
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you feel that way. I feel it’s a work of genius, the regular structure of which reflects Pirsig’s obsession with quality.

You keep arguing that the author is obsessed with quality, and therefore the book is imbued with an abundance of it. Quality is totally subjective. Taking four years to write a book and obsessing over quality is really not a badge of honor in and of itself.

>Quality is totally subjective.

No, it's not. That's just an American prejudice about it, because the individual there is always king, even if they are as crude as they go...

Re: Zen and the Art of Software Maintenance

#50
post #28
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly agree. "Pretentious" is the word I would use for it. "Insincere" is another.

I also dislike the book. As someone who loves motorcycles and fixing an old Honda myself, it is something I want to love. To me, the protagonist is trying to show how smart he is after reading some intro to philosophy book.

>To me, the protagonist is trying to show how smart he is after reading some intro to philosophy book.

I'd accept that accusation from people who have read many philosophy books and delved much deeper, and regularly read heavy discourses into the subtleties of the topics examined in ZatAoMM.

Else, it sounds to me like "I'm a plain Joe, I work hard, watch TV, and drink Budweiser, who's this guy writing all fancy about philosophy, when they don't even have a philosophy degree? I don't read no philosophy, but if I ever did, I'd check a professional, not some writer guy. Just gimme a page turner airport-thriller writer-boy".

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