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The demise of Docker and the rise of Kubernetes

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Re: The demise of Docker and the rise of Kubernetes

#41

Post by znpy »

metalrufflez wrote: post #28
siquick wrote: post #15

The real world is still very much using Docker. Infact a few companies I've interviewed with this year aren't even using any kind of container setup and they're doing just fine and making money. This kind of article just adds to the Jonesing-for-shiny-things mentality that really doesn't do the engineering world any favours.

Pretty much I worked for an e-commerce, leader of their market, that used no Containers for the past 3 years. CI produced agnostic packages, which were deployed with Ansible in any environment and auto-scalable using Golden AMIs, EBS Snapshots and AWS ASG. Almost the same concept, but way less complex. We contemplated moving to ECS/EKS to stay "current" and to make test/development environments easier to create, but…

> CI produced agnostic packages, which were deployed with Ansible in any environment and auto-scalable using Golden AMIs, EBS Snapshots and AWS ASG. Almost the same concept, but way less complex.

I like this, i wish more orgs would work like that.

Kubernetes feels mostly like a very opaque layer to abstract the underlying cloud vendor... Yet the cloud vendors are managing to get their lock-in back into kubernetes.

Re: The demise of Docker and the rise of Kubernetes

#42

Post by pluma »

feketegy wrote: post #19
siquick wrote: post #15

The real world is still very much using Docker. Infact a few companies I've interviewed with this year aren't even using any kind of container setup and they're doing just fine and making money. This kind of article just adds to the Jonesing-for-shiny-things mentality that really doesn't do the engineering world any favours.

Not even docker, mostly AWS or dedicated servers or even VPS... No small site needs kubernetes/docker orchestration and that's fine.

The problem with AWS etc is that you need external servers (i.e. no good if it needs to run on the local intranet). Also the cost of adding even a new VPS is much higher than spinning up another docker instance.

I'm pretty sure a lot of companies use docker simply to ease deployment of internal apps.

Re: The demise of Docker and the rise of Kubernetes

#44

Post by outime »

I'm not particularly fond of Docker but I don't see it going away any time soon. I acknowledge there has been alternatives around which were better in some aspects than Docker yet haven't worked in a single company that didn't use Docker with Kubernetes or other orchestrators (e.g. AWS ECS). Not saying they don't exist, but it's very rare on my experience (both as fte and as a consultant).

Also I have never met a dedicated "docker expert" as the article calls it. I mean, is there any company out there who's hiring people that only knows Docker? Does that make any sense?

Docker may get replaced by alternatives as they start getting more traction over time but I don't think this will happen all of the sudden - Docker is still relevant for good or for bad.

Re: The demise of Docker and the rise of Kubernetes

#45

Post by bonesss »

protomikron wrote: post #21
wyaeld wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

easiest way is just start experimenting with GKE on google cloud, and see if it has value to you. Don't bother trying to deploy and manage it before you've kicked the tires. Out of the box its quite good, depending on what you are doing, once you have cert-manager issuing you free certs, linkerd managing a service mesh, and stackdriver giving you an entire ops stack, its a bit hard to go back

How big is the vendor-lockin though? Let's say I want to use both Hetzner Cloud and GCP instances - I am sure it's possible, but the question is how much of a hassle it is ...

That depends on your app portfolio (naturally), how impacted it is by k8s version changes, and how much cloud specialization it requires.

You're probably better off on k8s than just about anything you didn't write yourself wrt to vendor lock-in. The true lock-in, IME, are when you use cloud features that aren't portable. Humble apps are fine, but ambitious apps are bound to those ambitious capabilities.

Seen next to comparable parallel installations it's a pretty minimal of per-environment specialization, and you can generally tweak the environments to support transparent parallel deployments. It's the differences in how load balancers work and which resources are immediately available that create work since the abstraction layer may not fully abstract away the environments.

Re: The demise of Docker and the rise of Kubernetes

#46

Post by luckylion »

gobins wrote: post #16
psv1 wrote: post #9

> If you’re (only) a docker expert, you’re in troubles right now. There are no more jobs looking for docker expertise and you’re dangerously close to unemployable. This is such a silly and unrealistic argument - no one is a docker-only expert. And docker is a desirable skill, just not on its own. It's like saying that git-only experts are unemployable.

Just speaking for myself, I have done a lot of work with docker and container orchestration but I have not worked on k8s. I see recent job ads are more for k8s experience.

I'd love to see a comparison between job ad terms and popularity on stack overflow & co. From the, admittedly little, experience I have with job postings, I've felt that a lot of those that are actually looking to hire (and aren't just using job ads as cheap PR/marketing) tend to be a mix of "it'd be nice if the person knew about X", "let's make this look interesting, so people actually bother to apply" and "hey, I've read an article about Y recently, that's a thing, right? put it in there".

Re: The demise of Docker and the rise of Kubernetes

#48

Post by anandsubra »

prima-facie wrote: post #17

> If you’re (only) a docker expert, you’re in troubles right now. There are no more jobs looking for docker expertise and you’re dangerously close to unemployable. > Kubernetes has succeeded where docker failed. Management buy-in. This must be one of the silliest articles I've read in a long time. Computer science and engineering does not revolve around the latest devops flavour du-jour. It will be something else in…

This is a silly article really. If a company looks for a specific skill set like Docker or Kubernetes, I think the company is hiring people who would become irrelevant after 5 years because you never know what newfangled orchestration tools would be the "right way to do it" then. Fortunately, companies do not hire in a silly way like this. Sure they write "Kubernetes" as one of the many things in their job descriptions but all companies I have interviewed with would be equally okay to hire someone who demonstrates strong Docker skills or strong sysadmin skills or even strong OS skills.

These skills are transferrable from one implementation to another. It makes no sense in this age to put all our eggs in one Kubernetes basket to be hireable. Expertise of the underlying computer science and engineering is far more important.

Re: The demise of Docker and the rise of Kubernetes

#49

Post by sakisv »

feketegy wrote: post #19
siquick wrote: post #15

The real world is still very much using Docker. Infact a few companies I've interviewed with this year aren't even using any kind of container setup and they're doing just fine and making money. This kind of article just adds to the Jonesing-for-shiny-things mentality that really doesn't do the engineering world any favours.

Not even docker, mostly AWS or dedicated servers or even VPS... No small site needs kubernetes/docker orchestration and that's fine.

Docker can also be useful to create reproducible deployments, especially for languages like python when your dependencies may change between `pip install`s

Having said that, I agree 100% that for most small/medium sized companies kubernetes is an overkill which creates more problems than it solved.

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