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Estonia is running its country like a tech company

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Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#41

Post by majewsky »

anilakar wrote: post #32
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #16

I had a chance to work for the Estonian government for a brief while (headed up business development for e-Residency). While a few things may be overblown about their e-gov initiatives (I'm thinking some of the blockchain hype that foreign journalists didn't really fact check) they really have done an incredible job making their business environment accessible for foreigners. There really is a strong mentality of del…

Germany and Estonia have two completely opposing views when it comes to personal information, and the Estonian way is the way to success. OTOH, the issue with USA is the conflict of interest between the public and private sector. Turbotax is a prime example.

As a German, I don't think the issue is with our handling of personal data. The real issue is Kleinstaaterei, a not-quite-translatable word that describes every small administrative entity insisting on doing its own thing and failing to see the bigger picture.

What today is Germany used to be about 100 separate nations until 1871, and a still somewhat loose federation until 1918. I think the mentality from that time is still pervasive today in many areas, particularly in bureaucracy.

Add to that that Germany is large enough to make the other EU countries play by its rules most of the time. That removes incentive to overcome nonsensical idiosyncrasies. Estonia is under a lot more pressure here because they cannot win by weight alone.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#42

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #38
anilakar wrote: post #26

Rememeber: We're talking about a country that had to be bootstrapped after the fall of Soviet Union. They have had very little legacy (as in "old but not old enough to warrant a replacement") tech and legislation to deal with. My personal favorite is their wireless PSTN: Take existing NMT technology and give people tabletop terminals that will accommodate ordinary analog phones.

I had a friend working in Indonesia in the 90s, on Sumbawa. He mentioned how the locals had DVD players, but they had skipped ever having VCRs. I wonder what it looks for them now. Are they all on streaming services, or do they still use 90s era DVD players. I wonder what Estonia will look like in 20 years.

Indonesia has incredible mobile penetration rates (133% this year), so odds are they're streaming.

https://www.slideshare.net/DataReportal/digital-2019-indones...

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#43

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

znq wrote: post #5
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #2

We have recently registered a company in Estonia. The process was very smooth and easy. All hail Estonia, the small county that could! (Opening a business bank account is a lot of pain, so there is still room for improvement)

We have a business bank account with LHV. For us it was as easy as making an appointment, quickly flying there and walking into their main office in Tallinn. After ~30 minutes everything was set up. That was 3 years ago, though. Maybe things have changed?

Thing is, we are from Russia. And LHV requires some "proof of our company connection with Estonia economy, like existing contract or utility bills". What proof can there be if the company is just started and not fully operational without bank account (hence, no contracts) and is not physically present in Estonia (hence, no utility bills)?

It sucks being Russian these days because of our warmongering dictator. :-/

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#44

Post by Iv »

znq wrote: post #4

I've run and invested in businesses in multiple countries (Spain, Germany, US, UAE, Sri Lanka). One of them (Mobile Jazz - a fully remote company) we've moved to Estonia in 2016. One of the best business decisions we've made admin-wise. While there are for sure better alternatives when it comes to "saving on taxes" (I'd say Estonia is in the European average with 20% corporate tax and an interesting taxation model on…

I am French living abroad. I had a one person (freelancing) company when I moved to Japan. It was hell interacting remotely with the administration. I am kind of left wing so I believed in not doing tax optimization and paying the taxes I owe at home, I was told this was suspicious.

If I ever do business again within the EU area, I will give Estonia a try. The prospect of an administration set up for working remotely is very attractive to me.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#45

Post by buboard »

I found this podcast about estonia's digital economy very informative

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTyOboVluxA

It's interesting how the East of europe seems to have similar aspirations. Growing, poor or former poor countries (Estonia, latvia, Romania, bulgaria, cyprus, malta) are bullish on using the EU status to attract foreign investors and enable entrepreneurship, including lowering their taxes, while the west of EU seems to be doing the exact opposite, sending their entrepreneurs abroad.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#46

Post by pavlov »

ex3ndr wrote: post #37
pavlov wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startup idea: Create the globalized equivalent of Silicon Valley Bank in Estonia — a local bank that serves credible startups around the world, with staff that has the competence to evaluate customers’ tech chops.

Literally any creepy bank will be better than SVB, no?

No need to imitate anything about the actual SVB, just like "Uber for X" doesn't mean you'd necessarily want to follow Uber's business or engineering practices :)

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#47

Post by jaclaz »

elgenie wrote: post #25
jaclaz wrote: post #9

I find more intriguing/interesting than the whole actual Estonian e-id/whatever technological achievements, that the President of a country writes an article (of course not very critical on the way the governement administration is managed) on qz.com.

Would you be as surprised if given equivalent technological achievements the mayor of, say, Oklahoma City or Richmond VA, did some horn tooting on qz.com to try to drum up outside investment and interest? Estonia’s population is between that of those two modestly sized metros.

I don't know, by those metrics, the Mayor of - say - Paris or London has much more relevance than - still say - the King and Prime Minister of Sweden or of Norway.

Or the Mayor of Rome more or less the same relevance as the President of Ireland.

Maybe I am too old fashioned, but I see a president of an independent country, small as it might be, as having a different, higher status than a mayor.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#48

Post by Avamander »

meerita wrote: post #27

I have some questions, if I want to make a free-speech protected project, is Estonia a country that will protect my business over silly demands or anything close like that?

There aren't any hate speech laws, but inciting uprest, and libel are both forbidden.

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#49

Post by mxfh »

majewsky wrote: post #41
anilakar wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany and Estonia have two completely opposing views when it comes to personal information, and the Estonian way is the way to success. OTOH, the issue with USA is the conflict of interest between the public and private sector. Turbotax is a prime example.

As a German, I don't think the issue is with our handling of personal data. The real issue is Kleinstaaterei, a not-quite-translatable word that describes every small administrative entity insisting on doing its own thing and failing to see the bigger picture. What today is Germany used to be about 100 separate nations until 1871, and a still somewhat loose federation until 1918. I think the mentality from that time…

This. On top of the dedication, Estonia has the advantage of being a single entity in comparison to Germanies federal org. (Population wise it's also only slightly bigger than Germanies second smallest Bundesland, the Saarland)

If you want to be intimidated try this, already reduced, chart of the state of implementation of the Onlinezugangsgesetz (OZG).

https://i.imgur.com/BYM6Rnu.png

source: https://www.normenkontrollrat.bund.de/nkr-de/stellungnahmen/...

Re: Estonia is running its country like a tech company

#50

Post by Avamander »

austhrow743 wrote: post #35
znq wrote: post #4

I've run and invested in businesses in multiple countries (Spain, Germany, US, UAE, Sri Lanka). One of them (Mobile Jazz - a fully remote company) we've moved to Estonia in 2016. One of the best business decisions we've made admin-wise. While there are for sure better alternatives when it comes to "saving on taxes" (I'd say Estonia is in the European average with 20% corporate tax and an interesting taxation model on…

Did you/people internal to your company set that up or did you use some agency that specialises in incorporating businesses in Estonia?

I'd say Estonia is one of the few places such companies are not required for setting up, having an accountant to consult before and after is sensible however.
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