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Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

mjtsai.com

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Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#41

Not surprising. The new Podcasts app deleted years of downloaded podcasts when I updated, including a lot that are no longer hosted on the web. For some reason the "sensible default" in the new app is to delete anything beyond the most recent ten episodes. Now I need to remember to restore from backup before it gets overwritten, heh.

An update that deletes emails is "not surprising"? I respectfully disagree.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#42
I wish I only lost mail data in the upgrade to Catalina.

I lost 400GB of data when the installer repartitioned the hard drive and the files that were in folders in root went bye bye.

I know I'm not supposed to put stuff there, but it was a family video project I was putting together for my wife for Christmas, and she would have seen it anywhere else.

There should have at least been a notice or a warning or some kind of confirmation. But there was nothing.

Nothing in the "Relocated" folder, either.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#43
It's temping to treat this as more of the same "Catalina is buggy, Apple is doomed" news, but note that Mail.app has ALWAYS been less than rock solid. For some reason, it seems to be a prime target for new features and reconfiguration every release, resulting in a lot of churn which unsurprisingly brings about bugs like this. A cursory search indicates a bug about some messages not showing up in 10.8, a Gmail issue in 10.9, VIP issues in 10.11, etc. But hey, we have gratuitous, cannot-be-disabled window animations when replying to a message, so what's a little data loss compared to that?

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#44
post #23

Not surprising. The new Podcasts app deleted years of downloaded podcasts when I updated, including a lot that are no longer hosted on the web. For some reason the "sensible default" in the new app is to delete anything beyond the most recent ten episodes. Now I need to remember to restore from backup before it gets overwritten, heh.

> For some reason Giving you the other side of this: Podcasts was essentially a disk-space-leak made app, if you subscribed to any podcasts that you never actually listened to (but still listened to others, and therefore regularly opened the app.) It would just pile up new unplayed episodes forever, eventually taking up tens of GBs of space, on a device that doesn't have all that much space to spare.

> It would just pile up new unplayed episodes forever

AKA exactly the desired behavior.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#45

I wish I only lost mail data in the upgrade to Catalina. I lost 400GB of data when the installer repartitioned the hard drive and the files that were in folders in root went bye bye. I know I'm not supposed to put stuff there, but it was a family video project I was putting together for my wife for Christmas, and she would have seen it anywhere else. There should have at least been a notice or a warning or some kind…

Damn. Thanks for sharing. I hope you had something on a backup somewhere

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#46

I wish I only lost mail data in the upgrade to Catalina. I lost 400GB of data when the installer repartitioned the hard drive and the files that were in folders in root went bye bye. I know I'm not supposed to put stuff there, but it was a family video project I was putting together for my wife for Christmas, and she would have seen it anywhere else. There should have at least been a notice or a warning or some kind…

The Mojave installer just up and trashed my whole file system. No reason to believe it can’t happen again. Always backup.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#47

I wish I only lost mail data in the upgrade to Catalina. I lost 400GB of data when the installer repartitioned the hard drive and the files that were in folders in root went bye bye. I know I'm not supposed to put stuff there, but it was a family video project I was putting together for my wife for Christmas, and she would have seen it anywhere else. There should have at least been a notice or a warning or some kind…

Check /Users/Shared/Relocated\ Items/Security/

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#48

I always find it strange when OS updates affect apps in this way. It just shouldn't happen. It reminds me of when Linus preaches that "the kernel should never break userspace". Why would a OS update suddenly cause the Mail app -- developed by the same company as the OS, for what it's worth -- to have these strange (and catastrophic) data syncing issues? And, just to add, I am tired of OS updates updating and/or relea…

Because to Apple and Microsoft, the OS is the experience, not just the kernel and some runtime bits of userland. It's more accurate to compare a macOS release to a new Ubuntu release (which updates a bunch of apps in the process), but still not entirely so since they don't insist on tying the default apps so deeply into the OS innards as Apple and Microsoft do.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#49

The position of Apple today reminds me a lot of Microsoft after they peaked (~2000?). Cocky to the point of arrogance because of market position, past innovations and brand loyalty (e.g., it is cool to own Apple). But loyalty and market sentiment can only endure so much amidst plummeting product quality, nonsensical pricing (e.g. dongles) and lack of any meaningful innovation (thinner doesn't count). Apple doesn't li…

It wasn't obvious at the time, but I think in retrospect the case can be made that Apple's ability to innovate effectively (both in terms of time and quality) died with Jobs. Jony Ive made a good effort to keep pushing hardware design forward, but without Jobs to curb his worst impulses (in my opinion), the end was result was "thinner above all else" (as you mention). If someone can come up with a corporate structure…

>> structure >> dynamism

Almost antonyms, which is perhaps why it's so hard to do without that visionary leader. A philosopher king if you will. Or benevolent dictator for life.

Re: Mail Data Loss in macOS 10.15

#50

Why do people use Mail? (genuine question)

It's very fast (native app), it supports practically every type of mail account ever, everything can be stored locally (great for offline batch processing of emails), and there are keyboard shortcuts for everything. It takes a bit of customization to get a layout that works nicely for my workflow (I use the classic layout). There are a bunch of other 'efficient' mail apps, but if you just need basic features and don'…

It’s also so much better for working with massive amounts of mail compared to Gmail and other webmails. In Mail I can work through many tens or hundreds of messages quickly and easily. With Gmail I often feel like I’m jumping through hoops to do the same thing.
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