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No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

penntoday.upenn.edu

41–50 of 257 posts

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#41

Isn't testosterone simply a byproduct of other hormonal processes? More of a measurement of effect than cause?

I guess? It's intimately related to the hypothalamic–pituitary–thyroid axis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic–pituitary–thyroid...

But I'm not sure what you're getting at. Trust me, inject 500mg of testosterone a week, you're going to notice changes.

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#42
post #33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dick Swaab of the Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience is a pioneer in the neuroscience underlying gender identity. In the mid-1990s, his group examined the postmortem brains of six transgender women and reported that the size of the central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc or BNSTc), a sexually dimorphic area in the forebrain known to be important to sexual behavior, was closer to that…

I wonder if something like an MRI could allow medical professionals or diagnostic systems to automatically categorize this non-invasively? When we reach a world where everyone has more star trek level medical care then a true survey of the population may allow for everyone to have improved lives.

Perhaps. I'm a little concerned that if this approach is used for diagnostics that it becomes another form of gatekeeping. (i.e. someone is transgender but denied treatment because their brain scans come up as cis.)

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#43
Notice the keen implication in the title that testosterone causes reduction in cognitive empathy - making the reader now brainstorm ways to prove the hypothesis instead of considering if its the correct question to be asking in the first place.

To illustrate my point, consider if this was the title: There is no evidence that being female reduces cognitive function.

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#44
post #19
post #4

>Prior to this work, the strongest evidence for a link between testosterone exposure and reduced cognitive empathy came in 2011 in a study that found administering testosterone to healthy women reduced their performance on a test of reading emotions. The results suggested the testosterone impaired their performance. That's interesting. Adult males typically have 7-8 times the levels that females do, and females are m…

Trans woman here. Cisgender men and women have different brain structures, and transgender people's brain structures tend to resemble that of the gender that they identify as[1]. So, for example, a trans woman like myself who was born male will have a brain structure that resembles that of a cis woman, not a man. > I know a trans man who, after a few months of testosterone, claimed it was "night and day" in how they…

> it was like putting the wrong fuel in a car

This is a great metaphor, thanks for sharing this

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually very interesting, do you know if/how they described the differences in perception?

I can describe my own (FWIW I went the other direction). Best way I can say it is that my own understanding of emotion was rather black-and-white when on testosterone. I intellectually knew that other people had emotions beyond anger or sadness, but had no frame of reference for what that meant. I tended to see major challenges as obstacles to be overcome through force of will. On estrogen it's like seeing the world…

Increasing estrogen blood levels will literally cause any male-sex person to become more empathetic via oxytocin...

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#46

Isn't testosterone simply a byproduct of other hormonal processes? More of a measurement of effect than cause?

Testosterone is generated a number of ways in the human body - but most of it comes from the testicles in men.

A smaller amount is from the pituitary in both men and women.

Depending on your weight there is an enzyme created in fat cells called aromatase which converts testosterone to estrogens which can have an impact on your overall hormonal picture.

Testosterone is derived in the body from cholesterol, which is way proper fat consumption is so important for a healthy endocrine system.

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#48
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if something like an MRI could allow medical professionals or diagnostic systems to automatically categorize this non-invasively? When we reach a world where everyone has more star trek level medical care then a true survey of the population may allow for everyone to have improved lives.

Perhaps. I'm a little concerned that if this approach is used for diagnostics that it becomes another form of gatekeeping. (i.e. someone is transgender but denied treatment because their brain scans come up as cis.)

Conversely it could help someone who is in denial and experiencing disphoria to come to terms with themselves.

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#49
post #33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dick Swaab of the Netherlands Institute for Neuroscience is a pioneer in the neuroscience underlying gender identity. In the mid-1990s, his group examined the postmortem brains of six transgender women and reported that the size of the central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc or BNSTc), a sexually dimorphic area in the forebrain known to be important to sexual behavior, was closer to that…

I wonder if something like an MRI could allow medical professionals or diagnostic systems to automatically categorize this non-invasively? When we reach a world where everyone has more star trek level medical care then a true survey of the population may allow for everyone to have improved lives.

So, that gets complicated. What if medicine finds a certain physical trait that is prevalent in 90% of cases where people are trans? What does that mean for the other 10%? Odds are good their lives just got WAY harder. Coupled with a history of being mistreated by the medical industry, there's quite a lot of (rational, imo) fear in the trans community about medical diagnoses.

Re: No evidence that testosterone reduces cognitive empathy

#50
post #4

>Prior to this work, the strongest evidence for a link between testosterone exposure and reduced cognitive empathy came in 2011 in a study that found administering testosterone to healthy women reduced their performance on a test of reading emotions. The results suggested the testosterone impaired their performance. That's interesting. Adult males typically have 7-8 times the levels that females do, and females are m…

I'm actually curious how this changes the narrative of a trans person if testosterone doesn't have an effect on one's empathy.

The narrative of the trans person is what whatever he or she decides, I've noticed.
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