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Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

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Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#41

Post by umvi »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #27
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #16

I'm surprised everyone has such black and white views on this. Some things are in the public's interest to record permanently. Some aren't. Laws that respect that distinction are great. Recording everything forever is good in the same way that a total lack of privacy is good. Many things should be transparent, and they should be recorded. But there's room for nuance.

Right to be forgotten actually clearly stipulates those things. Information that's "of the public interest" cannot be forgotten under RTBF, for instance. It clearly defines the reasons people should be able to have their information forgotten, such as it being false, very out of date, private, etc. Unfortunately, right to be forgotten has a huge weak point: It relies on the party forgetting (often Google or Bing) to…

> I would far rather RTBF requests be reviewed and approved or rejected by a government office, not a search engine company.

Wouldn't that mean politicians and their cronies can more easily scrub their own histories? Government holding the keys to approve/reject RTBF means it will be biased in favor of self-serving government-related RTBF requests

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#42

Post by Hitton »

__m wrote: post #28
Hitton wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is if you should defend the rights of the past offenders or current potential victim. Sure, there might be repercussions for past conduct, but at the end just one person is responsible for it. On the other hand you have potential victims who can't protect themselves by doing background check on potential perpetrator. If you prevent the victim from taking reasonable precautions, aren't you at least a litt…

Like a social credit score?

Are you trolling? How is erasing past related to social credit score?

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#43

Post by bilbo0s »

s_dev wrote: post #39
kd3 wrote: post #23

What about my right to remember?? What right does anyone else have to demand that you forget something? Do they have more say about your body than you yourself? If so, you are a slave. When tech merges with brains will they demand intrusion to delete what they don't want you to remember?

You can still remember -- you're just restricted from publishing or storing insecurely. Privacy effectively means the right to be left alone.

Unless you store it on servers in Asia or the US.

That's kind of the ginormous loophole in the whole RTBF issue. If you can't compel anyone in the US or Asia to remove anything, then you're pretty much a$$ out.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#44

Post by simion314 »

umvi wrote: post #17
simion314 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lot's of things can be used for bad things like cars and knives. There are checks in place so information that is important for society is not forgotten.

> There are checks in place so information that is important for society is not forgotten. Could you expound on these checks?

>Could you expound on these checks?

First tell me where you draw the line? Like X can be forgotten but not Y and I refer at regular people not persons with public interest.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#45

Post by hdfbdtbcdg »

thfuran wrote: post #40
hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what they say breaks a law yes. For example in the UK the rehabilitation of offenders act means that once a crime is spent it is an offence to discuss publish information about the crime. This is a classic instance where right to be forgotten is used.

If it's already illegal, then I don't see how a right to be forgotten changes anything in that case.

It means the search engines can't stick their fingers in their ears and ignore real people's legitimate needs to put their past mistakes behind them.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#46

Post by kcolford »

I feel that the right to be forgotten is valid because people are irrational and will be prejudiced against a person regardless of how different the current reality is. This would make me want to put a time limit (like you have to wait 10 years or something) rather than allow current/relevant information to be suppressed.

I also feel that people don't get to pick and choose. If you want to be forgotten then everything should be forgotten, not just the stuff you don't like.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#47

Post by febeling »

umvi wrote: post #29
kd3 wrote: post #23

What about my right to remember?? What right does anyone else have to demand that you forget something? Do they have more say about your body than you yourself? If so, you are a slave. When tech merges with brains will they demand intrusion to delete what they don't want you to remember?

> When tech merges with brains will they demand intrusion to delete what they don't want you to remember? Yes, but only if it is possible to index/search/dump the contents of people's brains. In that case we are walking video cameras violating people's privacy everywhere we go, and it is only logical that we should mandate people get their brains wiped of privacy infringing information. How would you like it if peopl…

> How would you like it if people sold information about you based on what they saw and heard you do in public?

That sounds like a partial definition of journalism

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#48

Post by SamReidHughes »

Hitton wrote: post #20
VBprogrammer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about the right to be forgotten just the other day. It reminds me of the line "democracy is the worst form of government, except from all of the others which we've tried". Imagine a young person who gets wrapped up in some illegal activity. 30 years later settled down with a wife and kids he goes for a job interview and the person across the desk happens to have googled his name. That to me doesn't fee…

The question is if you should defend the rights of the past offenders or current potential victim. Sure, there might be repercussions for past conduct, but at the end just one person is responsible for it. On the other hand you have potential victims who can't protect themselves by doing background check on potential perpetrator. If you prevent the victim from taking reasonable precautions, aren't you at least a litt…

Or you could stop trying to be in control of everything.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#49

Post by umvi »

nordsieck wrote: post #35
umvi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When tech merges with brains will they demand intrusion to delete what they don't want you to remember? Yes, but only if it is possible to index/search/dump the contents of people's brains. In that case we are walking video cameras violating people's privacy everywhere we go, and it is only logical that we should mandate people get their brains wiped of privacy infringing information. How would you like it if peopl…

> How would you like it if people sold information about you based on what they saw and heard you do in public? You mean like PIs? > That is a gross violation of your privacy and illegal theft of your data. Most people don't like it, but it's certainly not illegal.

> You mean like PIs?

Yes, but they have a government-approved license to do so, normal citizens do not. Random civilians aren't allowed to just PI people.

In terms of privacy rights, it would be for the best if people had mandatory implants inserted at birth that automatically prevented brains from recording things about other people in public that haven't consented to your recording. I'm thinking something like White Christmas (Black Mirror) where the default is that strangers that haven't opted in are fuzzed out visually and audibly. This would be a huge win for privacy rights.

Re: Europeans have a 'right to be forgotten' online. Should Canadians?

#50

Post by bilbo0s »

umvi wrote: post #29
kd3 wrote: post #23

What about my right to remember?? What right does anyone else have to demand that you forget something? Do they have more say about your body than you yourself? If so, you are a slave. When tech merges with brains will they demand intrusion to delete what they don't want you to remember?

> When tech merges with brains will they demand intrusion to delete what they don't want you to remember? Yes, but only if it is possible to index/search/dump the contents of people's brains. In that case we are walking video cameras violating people's privacy everywhere we go, and it is only logical that we should mandate people get their brains wiped of privacy infringing information. How would you like it if peopl…

>In that case we are walking video cameras violating people's privacy everywhere we go

This is actually not true in the US. So people should be careful and understand their rights.

In the US, the government affords us no expectation of privacy when we are in public. As soon as you step out of the hotel room you and your mistress went to at lunch, it's completely legal for a private investigator to snap photos or record video of you.

Basically, when you're out in public in the US, you have no right to privacy. So when people have amazon rings, or google glasses, or brain interfaces that record everything while they're in public, all that information is fair game for the authorities in any court action.

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