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How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

nytimes.com

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Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#41

Post by dirtyid »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #31
dirtyid wrote: post #28

What is stopping Twitter from releasing server logs for others to independently authenticate attribution? Facebook, Google have not declared. The ASPI analysis proceeds on assumption that Twitters attribution is correct. The startup Digital Intelligence concludes confidently "China has made its debut as a confirmed information operations actor" because the bots coordinated behavior "emulat[es] divisive disinformation…

I watched a few videos of a western man living in China (married to a Chinese woman). Their views on propaganda, information, privacy, leadership, marketing, power structures, etc... are all so vastly different from ours that it's almost unbelievable until you hear about it first hand. China's propaganda style is unabashedly similar to "Baghdad Bob". [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf

I hope this isn't an endorsement of serpentza or laowhy86, bitter expats with middle school mandarin proficiency flunking out of China are not insightful sources. There are millions of Chinese diaspora who lived in both Chinese and western cultures with much more useful things to say.

Here are recent studies on how domestic and foreign Chinese propaganda works.

How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts for Strategic Distraction, not Engaged Argument https://datasociety.net/events/databite-no-94-jennifer-pan/

Beyond Hybrid War: How China Exploits Social Media to Sway American Opinion https://www.recordedfuture.com/china-social-media-operations...

Overlapping findings of both reports is that Chinese propaganda focus on overwhelmingly positive, benign messaging i.e. it placates and downplays instead of argue, attack or antagonize. Both also suggest 50c doesn't operate outside of China. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese foreign influence has expanded. I hope it would at least be closer to meme-able Baghdad Bob than whatever low-effort campaign that twitter alleges.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#42

Post by hos234 »

bernierocks wrote: post #19

China has been using armies of bots for many years to sway public opinion. Much scarier than Russia, because they have 10X the resources.

Whatever China and Russia are doing, cant be more than drops in the ocean, in comparison to the modern Western News media. They are triggering people, including themselves 24x7x365. Matt Taibbi describes the consequences better than most - https://taibbi.substack.com/p/introduction-the-fairway

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#43

Post by eznoonze »

55436throw wrote: post #30
bernierocks wrote: post #19

China has been using armies of bots for many years to sway public opinion. Much scarier than Russia, because they have 10X the resources.

Well they’ve been doing a pretty bad job then, considering how often they are bashed on HN, Reddit, Imgur, etc.

They are NOT exactly known for doing a "good job" in anything related to handling people. Just look at how they handle Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjian, etc.

Yes they are good at amassing people to build infrastructural projects. But that is very different than having to convince people. The regime is hard-coded to do things with brute force.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#45

Post by mistermann »

dirtyid wrote: post #41
RobertRoberts wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a few videos of a western man living in China (married to a Chinese woman). Their views on propaganda, information, privacy, leadership, marketing, power structures, etc... are all so vastly different from ours that it's almost unbelievable until you hear about it first hand. China's propaganda style is unabashedly similar to "Baghdad Bob". [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf

I hope this isn't an endorsement of serpentza or laowhy86, bitter expats with middle school mandarin proficiency flunking out of China are not insightful sources. There are millions of Chinese diaspora who lived in both Chinese and western cultures with much more useful things to say. Here are recent studies on how domestic and foreign Chinese propaganda works. How the Chinese Government Fabricates Social Media Posts…

I really enjoy laowhy86's wife's channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzAxQ3vGD6Unk1GyxjJ9bmg

The other guy's channels are in fact insightful, but hers is more interesting because she was born and raised there, but also has relatives in HK and an American husband. She is completely unemotionally attached to all the propaganda and nonsense so it's fun to hear her take on these things.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#46

Post by SimbaOnSteroids »

vkou wrote: post #37
mullingitover wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, your account has zero history and is strongly advocating a pro-China position. If it walks like a duck...

Frequently, people have political opinions that are incredibly nationalistic, to the point of sounding like complete gibberish to anyone outside their bubble. I generally don't assume that they are bots, shills, or trolls, even if they sound like them. I need only look at the outcome of elections to know that those positions have incredibly broad grassroots support.

True, but consider that they're equally productive for any discourse, that is to say a net negative. Therefore it would be pertinent to treat them similarly.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#47

Post by sbmthakur »

55436throw wrote: post #30
bernierocks wrote: post #19

China has been using armies of bots for many years to sway public opinion. Much scarier than Russia, because they have 10X the resources.

Well they’ve been doing a pretty bad job then, considering how often they are bashed on HN, Reddit, Imgur, etc.

The sites you mentioned aren't the ones where most of the folks lurk around. Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube are.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#48

Post by bernierocks »

llIIlIlIllIIlIl wrote: post #36
55436throw wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they’ve been doing a pretty bad job then, considering how often they are bashed on HN, Reddit, Imgur, etc.

It's incredibly funny to me how concerned western netizens seem to be about Chinese astroturfing... as if it's an actual problem they need to worry about. 99.9999% of comments you'll find online are highly critical of China. The most upvoted submissions on Reddit and HN are often those critical of China. Most Americans (60% last time I checked) already have a negative view of China and their knee-jerk reaction is to…

"Does anyone really think 17 bots on Twitter tweeting messages in Chinese is going to change this?"

Try 17 thousand or 17 million bots, Tweeting in English.

This is also only a small fraction of what they are actually doing. If you take a look at many new movies coming out in the US, many are financed by a Chinese company.

They have also started buying major stakes in media companies, like Reddit.

The strange thing about the Hong Kong protests is that I can't seem to find any balanced coverage of it and I almost saw no coverage of it here on major US television networks.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#49

Post by shmerl »

machbio wrote: post #5

Am starting to feel this trolling is an industry (like troll farm) of its own - there are people or bots dedicated to trolling and reporting people who raise voice against the discrimination.. I recently had to report an unfair service by virgin atlantic staff after an emergency landing - I tweeted the pictures and video of the incident.. I was immediately trolled by twitter accounts about how i should be happy that…

It is industrialized in case of dictatorships pushing propaganda. Normal people don't do it on such scale.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#50

Post by danso »

noja wrote: post #20
machbio wrote: post #5

Am starting to feel this trolling is an industry (like troll farm) of its own - there are people or bots dedicated to trolling and reporting people who raise voice against the discrimination.. I recently had to report an unfair service by virgin atlantic staff after an emergency landing - I tweeted the pictures and video of the incident.. I was immediately trolled by twitter accounts about how i should be happy that…

I'm not so sure... looking at your twitter thread it seems like the usual twitter responses from people who ignore context and detail.

I'll have to second this. None of the accounts who belligerently responded look to be obvious bots or otherwise committed trolls. It looks like your account caught the attention of several news organizations, which means their tweets to you would have been seen by their followers. Or anyone checking out the "vs138" hashtag.
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