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Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

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Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#41

Post by roywiggins »

partialrecall wrote: post #12
smacktoward wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyway, he probably should have know better than to weigh in. RMS is not exactly famous for his keen social skills.

It really seems like his real 'sin' is not being neurotypical. Should he try to have more tact? Sure, of course. But failing that, the correct response is compassion and gentle correction, not a witchhunt. Not driving him out of his jobs.

I expect CSAIL is bristling with non-neurotypical people who didn't take this as a good time to come to the defense of Marvin Minksy in such a frankly bizarre way. It's one thing to say I don't think he did it, but to say "if he did it, it would not have been bad, and in this essay I will-" and to then distribute that to the entire CSAIL mailing list!

I'll grant that some of the headlines about what RMS wrote were overblown, but still. You don't have to look outside the four corners of what he wrote to see why it wasn't an excusable thing to blast out to a departmental email. Once you expand from those four corners to his prior comments on pedophilia it gets way worse.

At a certain point, if you have lived as long as RMS has, you should have some knowledge of your own limitations. It would take an absolute master of rhetoric to make his argument and not have it taken badly. He is not one, and he should (at this point) have the barest humility to not subject the entire CSAIL mailing list to his half-baked ideas on how Minsky might be exonerated.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#42

Post by partialrecall »

mindslight wrote: post #27

What a disappointing course of events. I cannot fathom how an institution such as MIT can have such a thin spine. But I also couldn't fathom the first time I walked into a Sears in a long while (ca 2010) and saw an "online catalog" which merely searched Amazon's website. I can't help but think this is the same creative destruction - rather than falling back to a core strength of traditional reputation, even a learnin…

> "Free Software ushering in lynch flash mobs"

How did Free Software do that? I don't see how the Free Software movement in practice or in theory has any share of the blame for this social phenomenon.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#43

Post by 75dvtwin »

> Amongst my real-life friendship groups this sort of "hate mob" type stuff just doesn't exist

You have great friendship groups. Do you remember, by any chance how this topic was handled in your discussions (I am genuinely curios)

"...

Brendan Eich is gone. The creator of JavaScript and co-founder of mozilla.org has quit as Mozilla’s CEO,

forced out by the uproar over a donation he made six years ago to a ballot measure against gay marriage.

There’s no record of Eich discriminating against gay employees—“I never saw any kind of behavior or attitude from him that was not in line with Mozilla’s values of inclusiveness,” says the company’s chairwoman,

..." [1]

[1](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/04/brendan-eich-qui... )

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#44

Post by esotericn »

teh_klev wrote: post #24
esotericn wrote: post #16

Is anyone else baffled by the idea that discussing something on an intellectual level, even related to a person, has to somehow be a 'defense' or an 'offense'? I've spent basically my entire life discussing things in the abstract. I'm not a politician, I don't make laws, and frankly I wouldn't want that power. To me it makes absolute sense that someone would attempt to "defend" even the most heinous person. It's weir…

I have, with the best most charitable reading of your post, no idea what you're talking about. Perhaps some context would be useful with regards to Stallman. Edit: in my defence, is op defending Stallman, or Epstein? Honestly, I don't know how Epstein and Stallman are related. I don't follow Stallman's every statement he makes. I simply asked for some context and enlightenment in this headline and esotericn's comment…

> Edit: in my defence, is op defending Stallman, or Epstein? Honestly, I don't know how Epstein and Stallman are related. I don't follow Stallman's every statement he makes. I simply asked for some context and enlightenment in this headline and op's comment.

Am I the OP in this context?

I think this is exactly what I'm talking about? I've made a comment explaining how this environment baffles me, and you think my comment must be somehow tribal in nature.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#45

Post by mindslight »

esotericn wrote: post #16

Is anyone else baffled by the idea that discussing something on an intellectual level, even related to a person, has to somehow be a 'defense' or an 'offense'? I've spent basically my entire life discussing things in the abstract. I'm not a politician, I don't make laws, and frankly I wouldn't want that power. To me it makes absolute sense that someone would attempt to "defend" even the most heinous person. It's weir…

I only takes a handful of people to escalate an abstract discussion into a direct personal attack, by claiming that the speaker's abstract discussion hurt their feelings. It's basically a weaponization of empathy, that gathers momentum by preying on a human bias to support others when they claim to have been wronged.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#46

Post by meowface »

vkou wrote: post #29
esotericn wrote: post #16

Is anyone else baffled by the idea that discussing something on an intellectual level, even related to a person, has to somehow be a 'defense' or an 'offense'? I've spent basically my entire life discussing things in the abstract. I'm not a politician, I don't make laws, and frankly I wouldn't want that power. To me it makes absolute sense that someone would attempt to "defend" even the most heinous person. It's weir…

It has been my experience that the people who most loudly defend rational, intellectual, level-headed discussion of reprehensible ideas are often not interested in rational, intellectual, level-headed discussion of how, say, their right to speech or, say, liberty should be restricted. It's an odd twist of irony. Everyone seems to be able to be rational, intellectual, and level-headed, when the issue they are debating…

Your comment is kind of confusing and ambiguous. Could you give an example of what you're referring to? I think any downvotes are probably more due to the crypticness than anything else.

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#47

Post by geofft »

gumby wrote: post #5

I am surprised he was being paid by the Institute at all. For decades he was not AFAIK.

I don't believe he was. He's listed as a "visiting scientist": https://www.csail.mit.edu/person/richard-stallman

I think that just means that some faculty member is sponsoring you to have building access and a login account, more or less. (And the implications of affiliation of course.)

Re: Richard Stallman resigns from CSAIL at MIT

#48

Post by harry8 »

perardi wrote: post #13
oidmortales wrote: post #8

This is how you destroy an institution. Now a politically correct person will take his place, likely a young women. She will increase equality and participation, and also those nerd computey things. Funny this is not happening everywhere, just in the west. Makes you think.

Yes, I am sure this will destroy an institution with a $16,000,000,000 endowment. Perhaps you should step up, donate, give them a comfortable nest egg so they don’t feel the need to take donations from a convicted sex offender. They are obviously that hard up for cash.

Can't see the flagged comment that this is a response to but what you've said looks entirely reasonable with one, pretty minor, caveat.

I've not yet met the academic securing grants and funding who would not have preferred it if exactly none of their time was required to do that. However wealthy the institution. Maybe some enjoy it and prefer it to research? Being the big, important, person hobnobbing with the rich and powerful?

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