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The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

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Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#41
post #25

A bit offtopic: is it still possible to create a Chess/Go type game that is easy for humans but hard for AI? Or are we past that point already?

It's not clear what it means for a two-player game to be "easy for humans but hard for AI" -- but if you mean that humans can pretty easily beat AI, probably the way to go is a game of incomplete information. For example in hold'em poker, AI have only been able to beat humans in the last 1-2 years.

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> End result is world championships like the last one of all draws, which was just pathetic. Yeah, this sucks. We've reached local maxima.

If it becomes too boring, the rules might be modified. Castling and en-passant were not always a given. Something simple like a draw is 1/4 point for white, 3/4 point for black, might re-invigorate matches in classical format.

Or that if a player offers to draw, and the other player declines and goes on to win, they shall be offered 2x points.

I do wonder though, in a drawn situation, can't one player push for a win if they are ahead on time, which one of the players is sure to be? Why would anyone accept a draw if they are ahead on time?

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#43
post #8

Former chess prodigy here. I had the honor of training with Pal Benko in the early 90s when I represented Team USA in the world youth championships. I remember Benko being a real class act, which I can’t say about many of the chess personalities I’ve met over the years. You could tell he was absolutely, passionately in love with chess. In that sense he represented something pure which maybe we’ve lost in this new era…

Am watching the World Cup right now. Before that watched the Sinquefield Cup. Both (so far) exciting events, not sure how you can pronounce classical chess dead. Bullet, lol---chess without thinking. It's the thinking I like about chess. The carefully-worked-out combinations, brilliant defensive plans, drawing swindles etc. If people like playing bullet, great, but it seems another game entirely. People complaining h…

And in the current round of the World Cup (16 games featuring 32 of the strongest players in the world) at least 6, probably 7 games are decisive: 9 draws. classical chess is not quite dead.

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#45
post #6
post #3

Well clearly the new chess Masters are no longer players but programmers. That doesn't make the game uninteresting though. A few months ago, one would have thought that we had the best algorithm and that progress would only be slowly incremental for now on... until the approach adopted to best humans at the game of go got applied to chess. Now you have these programs like LeelaChess able to best Stockfish (a program…

I don't know if programmers are the new game masters. As far as I know, bots are not allowed in most, if not all, chess competitions. It's not like we stopped doing the 100m dash after the intention of the bicycle or the car. Those are just other racing categories.

and the "racing category" the grandparent is talking about was initiated by crobots?

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And had the budget or could trade for coding hours I'm entertaining getting into bullet chess, what kind of dev work do you need? Presumably for LiChess?

Mainly full stack web (Node JS). I have a functional proof of concept integrated with Lichess and Stockfish API + custom chess code. It needs about week of love from a full stack dev to turn into an MVP I can test on actual humans.

Ok, let's talk. Email in bio.

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#47
post #36
post #25

A bit offtopic: is it still possible to create a Chess/Go type game that is easy for humans but hard for AI? Or are we past that point already?

I could see a game like Mao being difficult for AI or really any game with an inconsistent ruleset. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_(card_game)

There is actually an entire field of general game playing that can be extended to receiving partial rulesets at the start of the game.

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#48
post #6
post #3

Well clearly the new chess Masters are no longer players but programmers. That doesn't make the game uninteresting though. A few months ago, one would have thought that we had the best algorithm and that progress would only be slowly incremental for now on... until the approach adopted to best humans at the game of go got applied to chess. Now you have these programs like LeelaChess able to best Stockfish (a program…

I don't know if programmers are the new game masters. As far as I know, bots are not allowed in most, if not all, chess competitions. It's not like we stopped doing the 100m dash after the intention of the bicycle or the car. Those are just other racing categories.

over the board chess can be a struggle for programmers because we are so used to letting computers do the heavy lifting on calculations that its a struggle to think through tactical situations when you know a simple program would do the trick. It's almost like doing pen and paper arithmetic in the age of calculators.

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#49
post #48
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if programmers are the new game masters. As far as I know, bots are not allowed in most, if not all, chess competitions. It's not like we stopped doing the 100m dash after the intention of the bicycle or the car. Those are just other racing categories.

over the board chess can be a struggle for programmers because we are so used to letting computers do the heavy lifting on calculations that its a struggle to think through tactical situations when you know a simple program would do the trick. It's almost like doing pen and paper arithmetic in the age of calculators.

Implying programmers don't think? Come on now...

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am watching the World Cup right now. Before that watched the Sinquefield Cup. Both (so far) exciting events, not sure how you can pronounce classical chess dead. Bullet, lol---chess without thinking. It's the thinking I like about chess. The carefully-worked-out combinations, brilliant defensive plans, drawing swindles etc. If people like playing bullet, great, but it seems another game entirely. People complaining h…

Re classical, if you don’t want to take my word for it, look up the chess24 interview after the last world champs where magnus said it was so unenjoyable he wasn’t even sure if he’d defend his title. No offense, only people who suck at bullet say it doesn’t involve thinking. It’s the same game, it involves developing and training your intuition. I could teach anyone how to get good, even you... if you were open to le…

When I first started getting back into chess a few years ago, I absolutely _could not play_ blitz or bullet -- after the opening, I'd squander all my time in a few moves.

After a few months of practicing, though, I really started to enjoy it -- it really _feels_ like time dilation / thinking faster when you complete an entire chess game, to mate, in the range of 2 to 6 minutes. I'm also certain that this practice has helped me a lot with focus when doing technical work. [I'm still a lousy player, but that's beside the point, haha!]

p.s. re : American chess : Nakamura is, in my opinion, one of the greats -- and he [like Carlsen] has that quality about him that gets kids excited to play chess. [On a different note, it's great to have Hou as a role model for girls who want to play - I feel like she's up there with Polgar in the 'inspirational' category]

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