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Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#41

Post by simonh »

kmlx wrote: post #26
crispyporkbites wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s exactly the same reason people pay for fashion. The clothes don’t provide practical benefit, yet people still pay 100x more for branding. And you can’t hack this because these are multiplayer games.

yes, but fashion in games? paying for worthless pixels? i do get what you're saying thou...

Online multiplayer games are how kids socialise online these days. They don't meet up on Facebook, they meet up on Fortnite or Minecraft. Appearance is an important status indicator.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#42

Post by antpls »

If we ban loot boxes in video games, why dont we ban Magic/Pokemon card boosters that you can buy from physical shops?

As it's written in the article, problems arise for a minority of children. From the article, we know little about the background of these children and about their parents. It is possible that those children would have developed an addiction to something else if it wasn't video games loot boxes. Yes, some of them spend thousands, but what if they are millionaires's kids? They play by different rules.

In my opinion, gambling in videos game means your kids will experience the risk of gambling sooner, and if you watch your kid and educate them about it, they can experience it in a safer environment than when they are adults.

To me, banning virtual loot boxes is extreme and doesynt solve the actual problem (education programs are misaligned, lack of mental healthcare programs, etc). Addiction might reveal a problem, but it's not necessary the root cause.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#43

Post by TeMPOraL »

piokoch wrote: post #19
nurettin wrote: post #2

How does a free market self-regulate this problem? What is the competitive advantage of not providing chance items?

I would say that kid's parents will notice that a given game is addictive and costs a lot and will just forbid children to play it? Side note. Free market (as imagined by Adam Smith, Hayek and others) does not mean that greed and income maximization is everything. The same way democracy does not mean that majority can do everything ignoring minority. Without ethics neither democracy nor free market can exist. Some pe…

> Free market (as imagined by Adam Smith, Hayek and others) does not mean that greed and income maximization is everything. (...) Without ethics neither democracy nor free market can exist.

In real markets, there are feedback loops that are much stronger than individual ethics. Under intense enough competitive pressure, unethical actors outcompete ethical actors, because the former can sacrifice more human values.

> in the society that accepts unethical behavior both democracy and free market will rot

Unfortunately, in a society that is less accepting of unethical behavior, that is still only one input to the economy as a system, and to the extent the society is malleable, the input may diminish.

Consider the following mental picture: imagine society's ethical standards as a tilted landscape, through which the river of market activity flows. In a maximally amoral society, the landscape would be so that the river flows straight. The more ethical/moral concern the society has, the more meandering the river becomes. Now two effects happen: one, a strong enough river flow will outright cut corners and flow over some bends. This can be compared to companies acting unethically and getting away with it. Second, the current will erode the landscape over time, bringing it closer to the amoral straight-line terrain. This can be compared to effects of competitive pressure described above, when viewed over longer time spans.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#44

Post by Cthulhu_ »

kmlx wrote: post #26
crispyporkbites wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s exactly the same reason people pay for fashion. The clothes don’t provide practical benefit, yet people still pay 100x more for branding. And you can’t hack this because these are multiplayer games.

yes, but fashion in games? paying for worthless pixels? i do get what you're saying thou...

Are you into fashion IRL? I mean for a lot of people, flaunting their online looks is important, it pleases them - and they see others rocking a unique skin and appreciate that as well.

I mean I play FFXIV casually, but there's a huge subculture in that game for making looks, combinations and colorings of its huge library of clothing items.

All I'm saying is, withhold your judgment a bit on things you're not into yourself.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#45

Post by cameronbrown »

kmlx wrote: post #16
ian0 wrote: post #6

Myself and my son play Apex legends. Its an online multiplayer game thats free, but you can optionally pay to unlock cosmetic items like character outfits (skins) etc. He came into some cash recently courtesy of the tooth fairy and asked if we could buy a skin for his favorite character. I said ok. However after id purchased some in game coins we realised that we couldn't actually buy the skin he wanted, instead we h…

i've played apex legend for more than 50 hours, and had no idea you could actually spend money in that game. but i also think there's a generational divide: while i would gladly pay games for a leg up (better weapons, higher jumps, that sort of thing), i would never ever buy a "skin" for my character, or anything superficial for that matter. but I see kids getting completely hooked on this. and i don't really get it.…

I think cosmetics are a much better alternative to purchasing advantages (that'd never work for a PC game anyway) but keep kids away from gambling absolutely.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#47

Post by xxs »

dominicr wrote: post #12

I wonder if the reluctance of the gaming industry to tackle gambling is willful or due to ignorance of the issue. Either they understand the issue but it's their profits at stake, so they'll ignore the potential problems. Or have these stealth gambling mechanisms entered the games gradually and without the industry realising that what it's doing is actually gambling and there repercussions to that.

"I wonder if the reluctance of the gaming industry to tackle gambling is willful or due to ignorance of the issue. "

This must be sarcastic, the entire monetarization model depends on being gambling and -unregulated- gambling at that. No laws, no deposit/spending limits, no gameplay limits, no age restrictions, no regulatory reports, no compliance, no declared 'return to player' (save China), No Taxation. It's a loophole.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#48

Post by bluescrn »

kmlx wrote: post #26
crispyporkbites wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s exactly the same reason people pay for fashion. The clothes don’t provide practical benefit, yet people still pay 100x more for branding. And you can’t hack this because these are multiplayer games.

yes, but fashion in games? paying for worthless pixels? i do get what you're saying thou...

When it’s an online game played with friends, many will want their character to look cool/unique just as much as they want items/equipment that may give a competitive advantage

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#49

Post by jacobwilliamroy »

lozenge wrote: post #23
kmlx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've played apex legend for more than 50 hours, and had no idea you could actually spend money in that game. but i also think there's a generational divide: while i would gladly pay games for a leg up (better weapons, higher jumps, that sort of thing), i would never ever buy a "skin" for my character, or anything superficial for that matter. but I see kids getting completely hooked on this. and i don't really get it.…

That isn't generational, it is part of your personality though. You just described two of the four player profiles in this talk on monetizing games: https://youtu.be/xNjI03CGkb4

Blech. Torulf Jernstrom. I'm surprised they left that one up. It's not going to age well.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#50

Post by _Microft »

tudorw wrote: post #20
dominicr wrote: post #12

I wonder if the reluctance of the gaming industry to tackle gambling is willful or due to ignorance of the issue. Either they understand the issue but it's their profits at stake, so they'll ignore the potential problems. Or have these stealth gambling mechanisms entered the games gradually and without the industry realising that what it's doing is actually gambling and there repercussions to that.

The idea that they are ignorant is repugnant, they know exactly what they are doing, and they have ALL the data that shows how the 'child whales' of their industry can be best exploited.

A while ago I noticed that a small child in my family had a jigsaw puzzle with a Disney princess on it and since that seemed unexpected, I asked how that came. The answer was that they didn't gift it to her but she wanted it herself. They were surprised themselves but argued that maybe it's really something that girls/kids like.

I couldn't help saying that it's hard for children to not like them when the other side is whole departments of grown-ups doing nothing but engineering the best ways to hack a child's brain :/

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