California Approves Statewide Rent Control • Hacker News Board

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#41

Post by maxk42 » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:09 AM UTC

tmh79 wrote: post #18

souprock wrote: post #12

Oh joy, politicians trying to get votes from the economically unaware. If you thought there was a housing crisis, just wait. It's going to be crazy. Here is a different article, more tolerant of private browsing: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammillsap/2019/09/04/more-ren...

Limiting rent increases to max 8% (what this bill encodes) is only going to affect maybe 1-3% of lease agreements annually. This isn't about vast controls of housing stock, it about limiting 20% rent spikes people experience.

It's 5% above inflation, which would currently put it at about 6.8%.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#42

Post by Mountain_Skies » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:10 AM UTC

baby wrote: post #23

I’m surprised to read negative opinions about rent control. The alternative to rent control is having one’s rent double next week. I’m amazed that rent control was not a thing!

Sorry if this comes off snarky but perhaps others posting here can see past next week. All too often these quick fix Band-Aids end up causing more problems in the long run while also spreading the problem far beyond where it had previously been contained.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#43

Post by mabbo » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:10 AM UTC

It seems more and more clear that California, or at least those in power in California, don't want to fix the housing problem. Because if you're a land owner, the only problem is people trying to spoil the good times. All this VC money pouring into the pockets of tech employees, and a larger and larger fraction going straight into landlords' pockets. What's not to love?

If actually you want lower home prices, build more homes. Build tall (curb height restriction rules); build everywhere (no more minimum parking rules); build immediately (reduce complex planning permissions for developers). Just build more.

Supply and demand will decide the price of most goods, and housing is no exception. Rent control does not address the underlying issues that cause prices to rise- lack of supply and growing demand.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#44

Post by pitaj » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:10 AM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #31

Perhaps an alternative real solution to the housing crises is the abolishment of professional landlords themselves. Why should we support a system where people can own many properties, each feeding them 1/2 of someone else's paycheck? Public-owned housing is the future. It works in Europe and it can work here. Treating housing as an investment vehicle is fundamentally incompatible with the ideal of housing being affo…

> Public-owned housing is the future. It works in Europe and it can work here.

Public housing has failed time and time again in the US, so citation needed.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#45

Post by cryptoz » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:10 AM UTC

pitaj wrote: post #19

tmh79 wrote: post #4

The real solution here is to build more housing, as high prices are a market signal of a shortage. While I support more unit creation more than I support rent control, in the current crises we need both. What I still can't get over is how much of CA land use politics is pure generational warfare, the olds vs the millennials, and it seems that the millennials are finally starting to win some fights.

Rent control deters the building of more housing. It's literally part of the problem.

Can you explain what you mean? I don't follow. Rent control is a bandaid that provides a level of stability to the lower classes. They can live without daily anxiety of being rudely defacto 'evicted' by radical, surprise rent increases.

This enables a society to continue to grow and function at a somewhat more sustainable pace, letting cities and counties grow without intense boom-bust and crash cycles, with a more stable working class, and therefore a long-term sustainable housing construction market.

I understand that rent control is no grand solution, and that we need more houses built - but I do not understand how rent control is part of the problem.

The problem starts and ends with personal and corporate greed. The rent control is an attempt at constructing a sustainable, stable society from the ashes of an out-of-control capitalism that is leaving most of its consumers in the dust.

Rent control is not part of the problem and would not deter rational actors from building additional housing - I believe it would increase it.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#46

Post by tmh79 » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:11 AM UTC

pitaj wrote: post #19

tmh79 wrote: post #4

The real solution here is to build more housing, as high prices are a market signal of a shortage. While I support more unit creation more than I support rent control, in the current crises we need both. What I still can't get over is how much of CA land use politics is pure generational warfare, the olds vs the millennials, and it seems that the millennials are finally starting to win some fights.

Rent control deters the building of more housing. It's literally part of the problem.

do you have any clue about this specific measure? Its limited to buildings that are 15 years old or older, and it limits rent increases to 8% annually, which in practice is about 1 - 3% of all lease agreements in CA, a very small amount. Commercial construction loans are based on the 15 year revenue generating potential of the proposed building, this law was created specifically with that in mind so as not to interfere.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#47

Post by mc32 » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:11 AM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #31

Perhaps an alternative real solution to the housing crises is the abolishment of professional landlords themselves. Why should we support a system where people can own many properties, each feeding them 1/2 of someone else's paycheck? Public-owned housing is the future. It works in Europe and it can work here. Treating housing as an investment vehicle is fundamentally incompatible with the ideal of housing being affo…

So how is housing going to get built? Are you suggesting that the state have a monopoly on buildings and housing? What process do we use to begin the expropriations and confiscations?

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#48

Post by creato » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:11 AM UTC

> The bill limits annual rent increases to 5 percent after inflation and offers new barriers to eviction

The limits to rent increases seem like they are enough to avoid significant short term spikes, while keeping up with market rate rents.

The biggest problem with some existing rent control (like in SF) is that the limit is so low that rents can't keep up with market rates even over decades, which is clearly terrible economic policy. Maybe this limit is high enough that this won't be as much of a problem for the rest of California.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#49

Post by tmh79 » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:12 AM UTC

chaostheory wrote: post #11

tmh79 wrote: post #4

The real solution here is to build more housing, as high prices are a market signal of a shortage. While I support more unit creation more than I support rent control, in the current crises we need both. What I still can't get over is how much of CA land use politics is pure generational warfare, the olds vs the millennials, and it seems that the millennials are finally starting to win some fights.

> generational warfare, the olds vs the millennials This is a good example of that. Rent control tends to benefit the older generation at the expense of younger people and families. It does nothing to solve the actual problem of lack of housing inventory.

millennials in CA are disproportionately renters, not home owners. This bill will provide millennials with some extra security so they know their rent won't be spiked and they'll need to move.

Re: California Approves Statewide Rent Control

#50

Post by pitaj » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 12:13 AM UTC

baby wrote: post #34

bgorman wrote: post #27

One thing I have noticed as I have become more aware is that many of our laws are aimed at trying to freeze a moment of time, often by piling on contradictory policies on top of each other. Subsidize home loans Ban new construction Ban rent increases It is no wonder why housing prices/rents continue to rise in these markets. In software engineering sometimes conclude that a rewrite is necessary. How can we completely…

So are you saying that landlord should be able to double your rent like that?

Prices should increase in the case of increased demand. Prices must increase in that case if you want the supply to increase, which is the only way to actually meet demand.

It's how the market works ffs.