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Candidates for Mozilla's IRC Successor

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Re: Candidates for Mozilla's IRC Successor

#41

Post by dpark »

partialrecall wrote: post #29
radus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experiences as an infrequent IRC user over many years: - hmm, I have to download a client? maybe I can access a web interface? - okay, I have this connection string/url - how do I join a channel? - how do I set my nickname? is this persistent? - oh someone else is using my name? is this for the channel or the server?? - what's the etiquette of this particular channel? (I realize this is probably the case for any c…

Requiring a browser and requiring social media credentials are both misfeatures in my book. Browsers are excellent tools.. for spying on users. And for as benign as github in particular may seem, we shouldn't be replacing standard internet protocols with products that promote and further normalize the expectation that people have a social media account.

> Requiring a browser

You realize we’re talking about Mozilla, right?

> requiring social media

They’re explicitly choosing between social media platforms...

Re: Candidates for Mozilla's IRC Successor

#42

Post by stjohnswarts »

radus wrote: post #14
bhhaskin wrote: post #3

Why move away from IRC at all? If it ain't broken why "fix" it.

My experiences as an infrequent IRC user over many years: - hmm, I have to download a client? maybe I can access a web interface? - okay, I have this connection string/url - how do I join a channel? - how do I set my nickname? is this persistent? - oh someone else is using my name? is this for the channel or the server?? - what's the etiquette of this particular channel? (I realize this is probably the case for any c…

requiring a single commercial entity like github is a really bad idea. Sure it'll be fine for a few years but when github goes belly up or gets bought and the new CEO cuts all extraneous projects, then you're hosed.

Re: Candidates for Mozilla's IRC Successor

#43

Post by tamrix »

radus wrote: post #14
bhhaskin wrote: post #3

Why move away from IRC at all? If it ain't broken why "fix" it.

My experiences as an infrequent IRC user over many years: - hmm, I have to download a client? maybe I can access a web interface? - okay, I have this connection string/url - how do I join a channel? - how do I set my nickname? is this persistent? - oh someone else is using my name? is this for the channel or the server?? - what's the etiquette of this particular channel? (I realize this is probably the case for any c…

These are all advantages to me.

Re: Candidates for Mozilla's IRC Successor

#44

Post by partialrecall »

dpark wrote: post #41
partialrecall wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring a browser and requiring social media credentials are both misfeatures in my book. Browsers are excellent tools.. for spying on users. And for as benign as github in particular may seem, we shouldn't be replacing standard internet protocols with products that promote and further normalize the expectation that people have a social media account.

> Requiring a browser You realize we’re talking about Mozilla, right? > requiring social media They’re explicitly choosing between social media platforms...

My point is that any social media platform is not an acceptable IRC requirement, nor is requiring a social media account an acceptable requirement for any IRC requirement.

And Mozilla, more than perhaps anybody else, should be aware that web browsers facilitate surveillance of users.

Re: Candidates for Mozilla's IRC Successor

#45

Post by ori_b »

radus wrote: post #14
bhhaskin wrote: post #3

Why move away from IRC at all? If it ain't broken why "fix" it.

My experiences as an infrequent IRC user over many years: - hmm, I have to download a client? maybe I can access a web interface? - okay, I have this connection string/url - how do I join a channel? - how do I set my nickname? is this persistent? - oh someone else is using my name? is this for the channel or the server?? - what's the etiquette of this particular channel? (I realize this is probably the case for any c…

I admit, I never used zulip -- I don't like using chat from the browser, so I generally stick to things that I can connect to from chat clients.

- What does it replace channels with?

- How does it keep my github account separate from the identity I'm using in chat?

- How does it avoid etiquette in channels?

- Does it let me ignore or mute annoying people?

- Is it possible to easily archive communication for posterity?

Re: Candidates for Mozilla's IRC Successor

#46

Post by myself248 »

esotericn wrote: post #26

I have full faith that, if I had left a computer running, in the corner of my home, with an IRC client open, it would have been able to maintain a connection to Freenode (not continuously, but just work) for fifteen or more years. Personally I don't think IRC will ever be replaced. Well, it will, but it'll happen when my generation dies and gets fully replaced with the New Shiny. I _hope_ that some sort of real, prop…

Oh, yeah. A little longer than that, here

My freenode nick was registered in 2005, and I know that's the "new" registration since I accidentally confused the nickserv RELEASE and DROP commands once, and had to re-register the nick I had just mistakenly unregistered. It had a few years of history prior to 2005, but I don't know the details anymore.

And prior to Freenode, I was on a few other networks going back to '94 or so. But moving networks meant it wasn't a "constant" in terms of being the same environment, just the same interface.

We're not the only ones who feel that IRC will be around until we're gone... https://xkcd.com/1782/

Re: Candidates for Mozilla's IRC Successor

#47

Post by soperj »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #42
radus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experiences as an infrequent IRC user over many years: - hmm, I have to download a client? maybe I can access a web interface? - okay, I have this connection string/url - how do I join a channel? - how do I set my nickname? is this persistent? - oh someone else is using my name? is this for the channel or the server?? - what's the etiquette of this particular channel? (I realize this is probably the case for any c…

requiring a single commercial entity like github is a really bad idea. Sure it'll be fine for a few years but when github goes belly up or gets bought and the new CEO cuts all extraneous projects, then you're hosed.

You realize they're owned by Microsoft yes?

Re: Candidates for Mozilla's IRC Successor

#48

Post by recursive »

scrollaway wrote: post #11
bhhaskin wrote: post #3

Why move away from IRC at all? If it ain't broken why "fix" it.

At some point you have to stop saying IRC is not broken. You keep justifying it. If it weren't broken, you wouldn't spend all that time justifying it.

And what point is that. I haven't even started saying it, but I guess I'll start now. IRC is not broken. I've never tried to justify it so I guess that proves it.

Re: Candidates for Mozilla's IRC Successor

#49

Post by Marsymars »

fouc wrote: post #22
bhhaskin wrote: post #3

Why move away from IRC at all? If it ain't broken why "fix" it.

Lately I've been thinking about how amazingly successful IRC has been. I mean, it survived the "web" and smartphones as long as it did. Up until slack appeared on the scene. I was a heavy IRCer from '96 to '13, and then switched almost immediately to slack. Slack sucks in a lot of ways but it happens to hit the sweet point of convenience. It allows me to be a purely 'casual' chatter, I can close and open slack anytim…

> I don't have to have a bouncer.

By some odd twist of fate, WSL is what enables my IRC use. My only 24/7 PC is my HTPC/Plex server, which I also run ZNC on via WSL.

Re: Candidates for Mozilla's IRC Successor

#50

Post by t34543 »

TylerE wrote: post #9
bityard wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

No persistent presence, no true source-of-truth logging, bad authentiation - I mean, there's really nothing good about IRC unless you have a fetish for late '90s tech.

Everything you dislike about IRC is precisely what I like.
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