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A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

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Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#41

Post by sbmassey »

krapp wrote: post #16
yourbandsucks wrote: post #3

And why not? The entire political process is kabuki interspersed with conversations with important donors and lobbying groups that actually establish policy. Nihilism isn't the answer, but neither is demanding a particular kind of we're-all-professionals kabuki without any real change. Flipping over tables is at least something.

>Flipping over tables is at least something. No, it isn't. It literally isn't anything. It wasn't even anything when Jesus did it, because he did it, and then the people he did it to had him nailed to a tree and they kept on doing business.

... and then a movement was started in his name which resulted in big changes in how society worked, or at least changes in how the leaders had to act in public.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#42

Post by mirimir »

war1025 wrote: post #28
AndrewBissell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is far less "burn it to the ground" than his fans like to imagine. He's a friend to Wall Street, K Street, Raytheon Acres and the good old Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Didn't see this Michael Moore video [1] until after the election, but it pretty well describes why I voted for him. I'm doing pretty well, but I have a blue collar background, and the people I grew up around weren't. Didn't really figure he'd win, but my dad had died earlier in the year, and I figured he would have voted Trump, so I did it for him. Wasn't really a "burn it to the ground" thing in a literal sense. Bas…

Back in the day, the Yippies nominated a pig (Pigasus) for President.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#43

Post by armitron »

lopmotr wrote: post #21
AndrewBissell wrote: post #14

> 40 percent concurred with the thought that "When it comes to our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking 'just let them all burn' "; and 40 percent also agreed that "we cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over." Hard not to sympathize with this perspective when: - The people running the country lie us into an unending, ruinous war with help from…

Yet almost everyone keeps on voting for the same people to run the country. They mostly believe keeping the enemy other party out of power is more important than all of the other problems combined. Either that or they don't vote which is itself a vote for the establishment.

There is no alternative, other than not voting. The political parties in the USA are not the issue, since they are both playing for the same team (big banks and corporations). It is unfathomable to many that Obama (either through naivety or deliberate will) let Wall St off the hook. That was a moment that defined the decade.

The system is corrupt because the checks and balances that used to be there were dismantled (or slowly erroded in some cases).

The non-stop materialism-consumerism and lust for money that defined USA after WW2 (especially in the 80s-90s) can be seen as a way to control-appease (or distract) the population at large so that the power players could continue their orgy uninterrupted. But even consumerism and cheap entertainment is now coming apart. You can see it everywhere around you. The masses are reaching a boiling point and fireworks are to be expected.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#44

Post by krapp »

sbmassey wrote: post #41
krapp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Flipping over tables is at least something. No, it isn't. It literally isn't anything. It wasn't even anything when Jesus did it, because he did it, and then the people he did it to had him nailed to a tree and they kept on doing business.

... and then a movement was started in his name which resulted in big changes in how society worked, or at least changes in how the leaders had to act in public.

... and that movement was integrated into the establishment, first through Rome, then European and American imperialism, but the establishment continues to this day to be just as venal and corrupt as ever.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#45

Post by krapp »

notus wrote: post #33
ineedasername wrote: post #25

I think the verbiage is misleading and inflammatory. "Need For Chaos" can more reasonably be understood as "desire for change" when the individuals see no actual path for that change to occur. Calling it a "need for chaos" further alienates those whose very alienation is the cause of the phenomenon on display. Better to use more neutral language that doesn't inflame the population being observed or bias those doing t…

I think this is pretty on point. You have a lot of disaffected people who want something to change but don't see a reasonable path for the type of change they want. Instead they just make decisions towards the most amount of change, even if it isn't good change.

>they just make decisions towards the most amount of change, even if it isn't good change.

How is seeking the maximum amount of possible change, regardless of its nature and to no specific end not a "need for chaos?"

Someone who doesn't know what they want, other than to spite the system, basically describes the Joker.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#46

Post by Apocryphon »

ineedasername wrote: post #26
Jun8 wrote: post #11

(from https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/characters/nm0000323 ) one of my favorite movie quotes: Bruce Wayne : Criminals aren't complicated, Alfred. Just have to figure out what he's after. Alfred Pennyworth : With respect Master Wayne, perhaps this is a man that you don't fully understand, either. A long time ago, I was in Burma. My friends and I were working for the local government. They were trying to buy the l…

I always found this ironic. The answer to someone who wants to watch things burn is to, in effect, give them what they want and burn things down, on a smaller scale though, I guess?

Or perhaps by fighting such a man, you end up fulfilling their desires.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#47

Post by notus »

krapp wrote: post #45
notus wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is pretty on point. You have a lot of disaffected people who want something to change but don't see a reasonable path for the type of change they want. Instead they just make decisions towards the most amount of change, even if it isn't good change.

>they just make decisions towards the most amount of change, even if it isn't good change. How is seeking the maximum amount of possible change, regardless of its nature and to no specific end not a "need for chaos?" Someone who doesn't know what they want, other than to spite the system, basically describes the Joker.

Think of them as being lost in a forest trying to find a path out and constantly looking for higher ground to climb to see if they can see a path out of the forest. They never know if the hill they are climbing is going to provide the view they need, but they still climb hoping it does.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#48

Post by sbmassey »

krapp wrote: post #44
sbmassey wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and then a movement was started in his name which resulted in big changes in how society worked, or at least changes in how the leaders had to act in public.

... and that movement was integrated into the establishment, first through Rome, then European and American imperialism, but the establishment continues to this day to be just as venal and corrupt as ever.

The temples no longer contain money changers, however.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#49

Post by pnutjam »

notus wrote: post #47
krapp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they just make decisions towards the most amount of change, even if it isn't good change. How is seeking the maximum amount of possible change, regardless of its nature and to no specific end not a "need for chaos?" Someone who doesn't know what they want, other than to spite the system, basically describes the Joker.

Think of them as being lost in a forest trying to find a path out and constantly looking for higher ground to climb to see if they can see a path out of the forest. They never know if the hill they are climbing is going to provide the view they need, but they still climb hoping it does.

There is no hope in what they are doing, it's a classic "if I can't nobody can".

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#50

Post by notus »

pnutjam wrote: post #49
notus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of them as being lost in a forest trying to find a path out and constantly looking for higher ground to climb to see if they can see a path out of the forest. They never know if the hill they are climbing is going to provide the view they need, but they still climb hoping it does.

There is no hope in what they are doing, it's a classic "if I can't nobody can".

That's a pretty terrible reduction of the problem that prevents any further engagement. You cannot solve problems by ostracizing people.
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