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More UFOs Than Ever Before

theparisreview.org

41–50 of 58 posts

Re: More UFOs Than Ever Before

#41
I have a more dark and cynical outlook on UFOs and their continued presence in our culture. I watch Joe Rogan and I saw most of his interaction with Lazar as well as his even weirder interaction with Blink-182 guitarist Tom DeLonge. In both cases I got the impression that they were dupes. Tom had these crazy stories about high-level military officers bouncing him around between each other. They all seemed to be giving him a wink-and-nudge that he was on to something and he should keep digging. They actively encouraged him to publicly share whatever he learned.

I have a suspicion that there is an old-boys-club of high-level military guys pushing UFO conspiracies for some purpose. At the very least, muddying the waters can help mask any civilian reports of potential classified aircraft. At the worst it can act as a lightening rod to redirect public thirst for unearthing military secrets. When guys like Bob Lazar and Tom DeLonge show up they must be happy to get free dissemination of their programs.

I'd even go so far to believe that Bob could have been one of a few that were set up by the military using an elaborate stage-show with the hope of creating false leaks. The idea of the military staging the kind of things Bob reports after psychologically filtering for types of people who believably exaggerate is not beyond possibility in my mind. You may not have to work very hard at tricking someone if you find the kind of person who really wants to be tricked.

Re: More UFOs Than Ever Before

#42
post #37
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, that thing. It was a lemon. A cool looking lemon, but a lemon.[1] There are three videos: #1: Classified SECRET. It hasn't flown yet, but it's going to be really great. See this cool mockup! #2: Classified OFFICIAL USE ONLY. It flies! Well, hovers about 1m off the ground in ground effect. Wobbles too much. But with our elaborate testing program, a NASA wind tunnel, and maybe with more powerful engines and active…

Holy cow, the Hiller Flying Platform rocks!

If you're in Silicon Valley, there's one at the Hiller Aviation Museum. They have a good collection of strange VTOL craft.

Re: More UFOs Than Ever Before

#43
I was hoping in the beginning that this would present some interesting new explanation for UFO ... hysteria, but it didn't really get there.

The argument from governmental incompetence isn't terribly compelling to me. The occasional leaks of vast cover-ups -- like the extent of the NSA's surveillance apparatus -- suggest that the government is in fact quite good at keeping sensitive information hidden from the public.

The UFO phenomena appears to me to track more closely with the rise of the extraterrestrial in popular sci-fi. It starts with the War of the Worlds radio broadcast in 1938, made even more compelling perhaps by the events of World War I and the technological advancements that would have seemed to be happening at break-neck speed at the time, and seen through the lens of a global tension as events began leading up to World War II. It was based on a story written in the late 1800s which was just another of many popular British invasion works of fiction at the time, just with an element of science fiction, owing to Wells' training as a science teacher.

From there we have the rapid progression of Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, Space Ghost, Lost in Space, Star Trek, Unsolved Mysteries, The X Files, and a whole pile of other shows, movies, comic books, and magazines. Frequency of UFO reports [1] seems largely US-centric and tracks pretty well with metrics like number of hours of TV watched [2]. It also correlates well with the most common locations for the sightings: in rural areas, who have in recent years shifted their interest in conspiracy theories from the great UFO coverup and towards QAnon and the deep state and all that.

So while the nuclear age may have inspired some of the fiction, it looks to me like it's the entertainment age that created UFO mass hysteria. For the people involved, any phenomena they experienced -- strange lighting, whether real or imagined, or sleep paralysis, or the delirious effects of a sleep aid, or, maybe, proximity to experimental aircraft -- would all be best explained by the fiction they were most familiar with: extraterrestrials.

As cultural interest has shifted towards domestic issues, and we have begun to explore space ourselves, and ubiquitous surveillance has spread to every person's pocket but has yet failed to produce any clear, incontrovertible evidence for alien spacecraft, reports of UFO sightings have likewise been trending downwards.

[1]: http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/ndxevent.html

[2]: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/05/when-...

edit: as I was writing this, ~reggieband posted a comment to this thread that pretty sweetly exemplified my main points: he was watching a Joe Rogan podcast, and thinks that Bob Lazar is being duped into being a part of a government conspiracy to conceal classified aircraft.

Re: More UFOs Than Ever Before

#44
This is very well-written, from my point of view it's a showcase of how the mind works to prevent cognitive dissonance.

The author compares meeting the neighbors with meeting God.

> My relationship to UFOs is like my relationship to God.

I call this "cognitive leverage". There's a sort of if-then structure: IF aliens exist THEN something-something-God. The THEN-clause is too psychologically immense so the brain invalidates the IF-clause and organizes thought and perception in alignment with the result.

> I want to believe, but find it hard.

> I wish I could see one for myself, as I wish I could see the Virgin Mary floating above the yellow roses in my backyard.

Would you want to meet somebody that made that big a deal about it? It would be wildly uncomfortable for anyone but a megalomaniac, eh?

The reason the "G-men" don't openly talk about the UFOs, and the reason the spacemen don't land on the White House lawn, is right there: it would cause too much trouble because humans are nuts.

One classic way that this sort of denial of reality presents itself is in trivially invalid reasoning, for example when Cohen postulates that we can hide the existence of ultra-tech aircraft but not UFOs.

And here is a textbook rationalization:

> Belief in UFOs is really no stranger than any other sort of belief, no stranger than a belief in prophets or ancient codes.

That fails to account for e.g. his own neighbor who "had been in the military when he saw the UFO." and who presumably believes in UFOs only because he has seen one. He wasn't raised in a UFO cult, eh?

Re: More UFOs Than Ever Before

#45
post #16

The argument that the government wouldn't be able to cover something like that up is kind of weak imo. They had just spent years keeping the Manhattan project under wraps and they were starting to ramp up all sorts of spying and secrets surrounding the Cold War. And for info that does get out(like numerous eye witnesses), we've seen real life examples of how effective the strategy of treating believers like they're n…

[deleted]

Re: More UFOs Than Ever Before

#46

There are so, so many atmospheric phenomenon that can produce 'ufos'. Every time someone sees a jetliner compressed by humidity and heat into a row of dots (the windows) around a cigar shape, they're convinced its the first time anyone has ever seen such a thing. The burden of proof for a 'real' ufo is heavy, and nobody makes any real effort. Its reasonable to dismiss the entire topic as overheated descriptions of no…

crown flashes and ball lightning have to be some of the strangest https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CPk0mKVnnCs

I had seen this beautiful crown flash before, I was hoping to see some ball lightning of similar quality?

Re: More UFOs Than Ever Before

#47
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the problem with that is that they would need to be passing by only a few light years from earth to detect it, if it’s even detectable on astronomical scales. It’s not that they came here centuries after the nuclear tests, because even if they have FTL that is the shortest time frame that makes sense unless a nuclear explosion causes some signals that some how move faster than light which both violates physics a…

yeah but you're also assuming that they're subject to the same dimensions of time and space as we are

The signals still needs to get there so unless they have listening posts or are in the neighborhood the timing doesn’t match.

And in general the gamma burst form a nuclear explosion is so minuscule on galactic scales that it’s unlikely they can even pick it up over the background noise.

A spectral analysis of the atmosphere of the earth and the detection of fission borne radioactive isotopes is a much more likely method which means they would need to be actively observing the earth to detect it and still the same light speed capped timeline is in effect.

Re: More UFOs Than Ever Before

#48
post #35
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can observe that cells/DNA are programmed to adapt to local changes; we have no idea how they make sudden jumps for a more efficient design; This totally misrepresents evolution. DNA isn’t programmed to adapt to local changes, but rather it’s not programmed to perfectly reproduce without errors. Some errors are useful and get passed on, most errors are either useless or harmful and don’t. And lots of small chang…

The problem with this thinking is that it completely disregards the time complexity/probability of that happening. So having certain "bits flipped" in DNA in a certain sequence in multiple representatives of the same species in the same location for the change to propagate has too low probability, especially when the number of instances of biological species was usually quite low due to constant struggle for survival…

> the complexity of growing e.g. a new leg because you somehow need it is again unthinkable with our current computing power (we can't even model that properly with reinforcement learning on fastest supercomputers).

On the contrary, the complexity is so trivial it’s something I did in 30 minutes, on a laptop, in 2008, as a “prove it to myself” response to a young-Earth Baptist Creationist.

What we can’t do is simulate full-lifecycle organ-scale multi-cell protein folding in real time, but that’s a very different thing.

Re: More UFOs Than Ever Before

#49
post #48
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this thinking is that it completely disregards the time complexity/probability of that happening. So having certain "bits flipped" in DNA in a certain sequence in multiple representatives of the same species in the same location for the change to propagate has too low probability, especially when the number of instances of biological species was usually quite low due to constant struggle for survival…

> the complexity of growing e.g. a new leg because you somehow need it is again unthinkable with our current computing power (we can't even model that properly with reinforcement learning on fastest supercomputers). On the contrary, the complexity is so trivial it’s something I did in 30 minutes, on a laptop, in 2008, as a “prove it to myself” response to a young-Earth Baptist Creationist. What we can’t do is simulat…

What do you mean? You trivially simulated the process of figuring out that an animal needs to grow a new leg/organ in response to some environmental situation or to gain "an upper leg" against its adversaries? Are you serious?
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