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YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

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Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#41

Post by word-reader »

crazygringo wrote: post #24

Content ID is never going to be perfect (so there always needs to be an appeal mechanism). But I'd always expected that false matches would be due to some kind of hash collision, not different recordings of the same piece. Because YouTube doesn't know what the composition is, it only compares to other performances (which are under copyright). And the fact that two different pianists could interpret and perform a work…

You can tell it's not a fluke if you look at the copyright claims that are sometimes available in the "Show More" section. Frequently, it will show claims that recordings of the same piece by other performers are part of the video.

Here is one example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxDCgFFBk20

Two of the movements have correct copyright claims for the performance, but another of the movements has a claim for a recording by a different conductor and orchestra. I see this all the time.

Like another person said here, we don't know how Content ID works or what exactly it's looking for, but it's clearly not an "exact match" of sound waves or something: it has to catch covers of compositions that are still under copyright, for example [1].

[1] https://diymusician.cdbaby.com/youtube/posting-cover-songs-o...

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#42

Post by quaquaqua1 »

izacus wrote: post #35
quaquaqua1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government has two options as I see them: 1) Reform the copyright system (unlikely due to powerful lobbyists and lawyers) 2) Eventually lose control over the industry to other countries as consumers vote with their feet.

You missed: 3) Bribe and capture legal system so everyone is forced to pay to the big copyright owners and you can't vote with your feet anymore.

I suppose that's the current reality right?

I'm imagining a future where everyone (re)discovers torrenting. Or Russia/China make a Spotify competitor with entirely stolen content and the government officials there turn a blind eye to Universal's rights.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#44

Post by onli »

izacus wrote: post #36
onli wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Content ID is not the DMCA. Content ID got it wrong here, and that happens all the time. It's not a big deal for the claimer. Which is totally contrary to how DMCA works, if someone makes a wrong claim there it gets very expensive for them. Youtube could easily copy that aspect of the DMCA and make it very expensive for mis-claimers, and easy to counteract automatic mis-classification. That they don't has nothing dir…

> Content ID is not the DMCA. Content ID got it wrong here, and that happens all the time. It's not a big deal for the claimer. Which is totally contrary to how DMCA works, if someone makes a wrong claim there it gets very expensive for them. That simply is not true. DMCA misclaims are pretty much not punished at all in practice.

The provisions are there. If they are not used it's either because the violated party does not sue or because the US justice system again is not working properly. But at least that's how the system ought to work. With Content ID there is no recourse at all against misuse, it all relies on Youtube to care. Which it doesn't seem to do at all.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#45

Post by smcameron »

I used to use music from musopen.org that contains recordings that are either public domain or creative commons, typically from the Air Force band, or various small town orchestras or college or even high school orchestras for background music for my little space game videos, but dealing with the copyright claims became too much of a hassle, so now I just rapidly strum some chords on an acoustic guitar and run it through paulstretch and throw some reverb on it to get some ambient space music sound.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#46

Post by twirlock »

dpcan wrote: post #20

YouTube seems to be taking the brunt of the criticism when it's the repercussions of copyright infringement lawsuits that are the problem. I'm sure YouTube would love to be more lenient. If they could say "anything goes" they'd be thrilled, but we know they cannot because of the LAWS that are protecting IP owners. IP should be protected, but to what extent? And the bigger problem is the amount, and rate, of which con…

Is there a single place left on the internet where we don't have to hear from some shill defending some corporation as the top comment on everything?

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#47

Post by aoeusnth1 »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #10
sheinsheish wrote: post #6

Have a look at Rick Beato on Youtube

Why?

Maybe he's referring to the video breaking down the bullshit Flame vs. Katy Perry lawsuit about Dark Horse,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4MuhPqfIk4

He also says one of his videos was de-monetized because Dark Horse was bleeding through someone's headphones in one of his videos.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#48

Post by lotsofpulp »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #22
lotsofpulp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real problem is no one (or not enough people) want to pay for a service that hosts user uploaded video, filters each and every one accurately for illegal/copyrighted content, and then is able to serve it worldwide 24/7 instantaneously. That’s the reason I think no alternative service has sprouted up.

We had a policy for that built into the DMCA. It was a procedure that copyright holders could send an email and go through a process of attestation and rebuttal. Google shortcutted that by working with music and movie studios and made a ML version that bypasses the DMCA. The harm is caused to everyone not represented by a major media company. In the end, I have no due process afforded to me by the DMCA because Google…

And enough people aren’t willing to pay for the people receiving that email.

Nothing stopping anyone else from starting a similar service as YouTube that offers that kind of service, other than lack of money to burn.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#49

Post by rehasu »

dpcan wrote: post #20

YouTube seems to be taking the brunt of the criticism when it's the repercussions of copyright infringement lawsuits that are the problem. I'm sure YouTube would love to be more lenient. If they could say "anything goes" they'd be thrilled, but we know they cannot because of the LAWS that are protecting IP owners. IP should be protected, but to what extent? And the bigger problem is the amount, and rate, of which con…

> but we know they cannot because of the LAWS that are protecting IP owners

I don't think that's a fair assessment. I played a bunch of less well defined tactical competitive games when I was younger and even though the rules were not perfect we were able to yield outcomes that sufficiently would be satisfactory to everybody and in many cases also representing of the skills of the competitors, i.e. good games.

The problem with "real world games", e.g. like this question of "who gains the most from a creation?" is not that the rules are not perfect, but that there are many players who don't have the slightest intention to play good games. There is good argument for why the creator should gain the most, or his family, or the company that produced the company in a market worthy format. There is even an argument for that the person should take it who through his cunning or strength is simply more able to take the gain. But there is a big difference between competitors trying to win while enjoying the game and those who want to win no matter the cost to everyone, including themselves.

On the gaming table you simply exclude these people, but in the real world you can't.

On Youtube they will probably not take down a video if nobody claims its protection rights. So someone came and claimed these videos.

And that's the problem in my eyes. If everybody is trying to create an enjoyable environment for everybody else nobody would attempt to "generate every possible sequence of notes [for personal gain]" because it wouldn't even be fun even for that player for long.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#50

Post by wbl »

degenerate wrote: post #26
dpcan wrote: post #20

YouTube seems to be taking the brunt of the criticism when it's the repercussions of copyright infringement lawsuits that are the problem. I'm sure YouTube would love to be more lenient. If they could say "anything goes" they'd be thrilled, but we know they cannot because of the LAWS that are protecting IP owners. IP should be protected, but to what extent? And the bigger problem is the amount, and rate, of which con…

The problem with awarding only complete works is: bad people exist. Laws need to have enough flexibility so that truly devious people are covered by the law as well. Example: I copy 99% of a popular song, but the first 3 seconds of my song = me playing a trumpet at full blast. Technically it's not a copy of the complete works, so I can argue in court that it's a sub-section of the original song. No judge/jury would a…

And the flip side is that if you wanted to write the 1812 overture you couldnt because that quotes La Marsailles.
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