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Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

nytimes.com

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Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#41

Post by mirimir »

barney54 wrote: post #13
mirimir wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... we will pass laws and make it easy to outsource all of the jobs ... Not just laws. During the Reagan era, there were US government programs to promote outsourcing jobs. And to coach firms on how to do it.

That’s an interesting claim. I’d like to read more about it. Do you have a citation?

I can't find it now, but I recall an article about it from the mid 80s. A reporter, posing as an executive, attended a government-run training/conference. I think that it was Michael Moore, but I'm not sure.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#42

Post by trentnix »

We in the USA live in the most gilded time in history, partially thanks to free markets and all the reasons the author bemoans. All income levels experience a level of prosperity without equal. Our poor are obese, unemployment is low, and the access to career altering knowledge and skills has never been better. A dip in the economy is overdue yet here we are, still experiencing a historic period of growth and economic strength.

But a presidential election is coming and the side not in power must convince everyone they are miserable. And since the economy historically ebbs and flows, “experts” will line up to write articles about the upcoming sunset so they can preen about when it inevitably does.

All the while our government is 22 trillion in debt and nobody cares. The left claims it’s because we don’t tax enough and then proposes programs that would explode the debt. And the right claims we spend too much yet, on their watch, deficits have never been larger despite record receipts.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#43

Post by cptskippy »

klez wrote: post #14
gojomo wrote: post #8

Applebaum tries to finger "elfin libertarian" Milton Friedman as "the most important figure". But the specific policies he attributes to Friedman don't seem so bad: * end the draft, replace with well-paid all-volunteer military * let international exchange rates vary * evaluate regulations based on the cost-to-save-a-life Does Applebaum want to bring back the draft? Put exchange rates back under direct political cont…

There are reasons the draft can be a good idea. When the military is only voluntary you get a military with specific ideas about foreign policy and how you see the enemy, whoever they are. If you introduce the draft you have a more heterogenous military.

Yes that's all true at the bottom. The top is still career military and they very much set the culture, tone, and policy.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#44

Post by zarkov99 »

klez wrote: post #14
gojomo wrote: post #8

Applebaum tries to finger "elfin libertarian" Milton Friedman as "the most important figure". But the specific policies he attributes to Friedman don't seem so bad: * end the draft, replace with well-paid all-volunteer military * let international exchange rates vary * evaluate regulations based on the cost-to-save-a-life Does Applebaum want to bring back the draft? Put exchange rates back under direct political cont…

There are reasons the draft can be a good idea. When the military is only voluntary you get a military with specific ideas about foreign policy and how you see the enemy, whoever they are. If you introduce the draft you have a more heterogenous military.

Absolutely. A draft would also force Americans of all backgrounds to interact with each other in an environment that builds cohesion. It would also give even the most powerful of Americans skin in the game when it comes to starting wars.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#45

Post by tomrod »

colek42 wrote: post #35
klez wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are reasons the draft can be a good idea. When the military is only voluntary you get a military with specific ideas about foreign policy and how you see the enemy, whoever they are. If you introduce the draft you have a more heterogenous military.

What specific kind of military do you get? The US military I was a part of was the most diverse group of men and women I have ever worked with in just any metric you can find.

I believe parent commentator was making a claim to lack of philosophical diversity, and that a voluntary military is more prone to prefer war over diplomacy.

I see the margin the parent commentator is trying to make, but feel it misses people who join the military to obtain gainful employment, get education, or numerous other reasons.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#46

Post by adreamingsoul »

trentnix wrote: post #42

We in the USA live in the most gilded time in history, partially thanks to free markets and all the reasons the author bemoans. All income levels experience a level of prosperity without equal. Our poor are obese, unemployment is low, and the access to career altering knowledge and skills has never been better. A dip in the economy is overdue yet here we are, still experiencing a historic period of growth and economi…

So what’s your point?

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#47

Post by ianai »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #38
sprafa wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good economists do it. What makes you think economics is scientific? To be honest it seems to me we’re at the alchemy level of economics - basically we barely understand what we’re doing

Nothing makes me think economics is scientific. But it's taught as if it's a science, handled inside academia as if it's a science, and has more influence on policy than hard science does. If it's not a science, those three facts are rather curious.

Unfortunately, people professing to know economics often gives lawmakers rationalizations for whatever they want to do. There’s always someone ready to defend whatever conclusion politicians are already decided upon.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#48

Post by devonkim »

abhinai wrote: post #10

Blame no one. I sincerely doubt if humans truly understand economics. I mean we have the data for last 100 years. Maybe more. And everything we know today has been inferred from this data. But honestly, how do we know how economy is supposed to behave over a 20 year period in a world of high frequency trading, automated trading, disruptive technologies, globalization, ability to work remotely, a Continental currency…

We have accounting records for the Mesopotamian civilization to the extent that Michael Hudson decades ago got a doctorate in economics for his work analyzing the debt ledgers in cuneiform. His work was instrumental for getting Iceland out of the financial struggles they were in years ago and his career struggles are a testament to the lack of concern that most STEM and economics professionals have for the possible lessons of thousands of years ago.

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#49

Post by gojomo »

soniman wrote: post #18
klez wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are reasons the draft can be a good idea. When the military is only voluntary you get a military with specific ideas about foreign policy and how you see the enemy, whoever they are. If you introduce the draft you have a more heterogenous military.

A draft raises the cost of war, making war less likely.

Does this argument back-test successfully?

Has the US suffered fewer war-fatalities in the era(s) where it had a draft (including the Civil War, WW1, WW2, & Vietnam), or in the era where it has an all-volunteer force (since 1973)?

Re: Blame Economists for the Mess We’re In

#50

Post by patientplatypus »

From 08-10 I was a flunky analyst at the federal reserve. First job out of undergrad and the first w2 I ever took home. The most important thing I learned is that the people in charge don’t know what they’re doing. The second most important thing I learned is that the same people will claim they do for money.
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