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‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

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Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#41
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about London took its toll? I've been contemplating a switch from NYC to London. I know it will be a 30-50% pay cut, but I've been told by other's who have lived and worked in both that it is worth it for the better work/life balance.

I'm German, but was working in the US, but gave up the higher pay to the better health care, and quality of life in Germany.

Cries in NYC with mediocre employer-provided health insurance

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#42

I worked at a startup as the first Dev, it was a shock for me having to now consider things like: * What company laptops to buy? * Assess the merits of AWS and GCP and make a decision. * Divine an architecture that will get the product to the customers ASAP but will last at least a year with growth before needing a major rethink. * Present to customers, board members and potential investors about the tech. Eventually…

What about London took its toll? I've been contemplating a switch from NYC to London. I know it will be a 30-50% pay cut, but I've been told by other's who have lived and worked in both that it is worth it for the better work/life balance.

I worked in London for 7 years, now in NYC for 3 years. London's definitely better for work life balance. I've managed to find a great balance here in NYC after trying hard to do that but struggle to find friends/colleagues that get it. In London you'll find plenty of talented and smart people that don't feel like working beyond 6pm is acceptable.

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#43

I worked at a startup as the first Dev, it was a shock for me having to now consider things like: * What company laptops to buy? * Assess the merits of AWS and GCP and make a decision. * Divine an architecture that will get the product to the customers ASAP but will last at least a year with growth before needing a major rethink. * Present to customers, board members and potential investors about the tech. Eventually…

What about London took its toll? I've been contemplating a switch from NYC to London. I know it will be a 30-50% pay cut, but I've been told by other's who have lived and worked in both that it is worth it for the better work/life balance.

London is probably easier than NYC having lived in London and visited NYC.

Both are pretty... 'fast paced', for lack of a better term.

I've just moved out of London after being there for 5 years - the income required to have a decent standard of living is just getting daft, especially if you care about others around you and not just yourself.

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#44
Aside from the clickbait title and the rough writing, good article. The key to excelling as a developer isn't your technical prowess, it's your soft skills, which includes understanding the business you're in and how to interface well with stakeholders in other divisions.

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#45

I worked at a startup as the first Dev, it was a shock for me having to now consider things like: * What company laptops to buy? * Assess the merits of AWS and GCP and make a decision. * Divine an architecture that will get the product to the customers ASAP but will last at least a year with growth before needing a major rethink. * Present to customers, board members and potential investors about the tech. Eventually…

What about London took its toll? I've been contemplating a switch from NYC to London. I know it will be a 30-50% pay cut, but I've been told by other's who have lived and worked in both that it is worth it for the better work/life balance.

Londoner here. I've never worked in NYC but having been there for pleasure I can tell you things like commuting will be a lot easier (possibly even cheaper? Weekly tickets will set you back 35 quid if you commute from zone 1 and 2).

My wife is American and recently quit her job with Delta (she's done both office jobs there and she's also flown as an FA). And based on her experience I can tell you you'll have a much better work life balance. This is especially if you're planning to work as a limited company contractor* as your responsibilities don't go beyond your contracted obligations.

Having said all of that, Brexit is coming up so no one is really sure what is going on.

* be careful if you do contract, if you do, read up on IR35 as that's about to shake up the contracting industry for private companies.

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#46
post #23

Would people please stop shitting on php. It's no better nor worse than let's say, ruby. It gets shit done. It is a valid tool very widely used in the wild.

There are decades of history behind every criticism of PHP? Do you just want people to ignore them? PHP can be a bit of a punching bag, even when it's not topical. But it's not exactly unwarranted.

You almost imply as if there is a scripting or programming language that is perfect and free of any criticism or disadvantage?

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#47

Great article. Here are some examples of how you know if you have a software engineer or product engineer at your startup (real experiences from me): CEO: We need to add a product search to our website so customers can easier find the products which they like. SE: Ok - and walks off and builds a search box into website. PE: Ok - walks off and builds a search box into the website. Also logs all search queries with zer…

So people or companies generally look for product engineers ? For job postings I normally have not seen such role defined.

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#48
post #23

Would people please stop shitting on php. It's no better nor worse than let's say, ruby. It gets shit done. It is a valid tool very widely used in the wild.

There are decades of history behind every criticism of PHP? Do you just want people to ignore them? PHP can be a bit of a punching bag, even when it's not topical. But it's not exactly unwarranted.

A lot of the criticisms were perfectly valid security concerns (some of the old default behaviour was insecure by design). Fortunately the language has evolved a lot and is nowhere near as bad as it once was. Also a lot of the criticisms were based on PHP being an easy "beginner language" and so being used by a lot of people who had no idea what they were doing.

If people have valid criticisms of modern PHP then by all means air them, but don't go ragging on the language in 2019 for problems with PHP written in 2004.

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#49
post #23

Would people please stop shitting on php. It's no better nor worse than let's say, ruby. It gets shit done. It is a valid tool very widely used in the wild.

There are decades of history behind every criticism of PHP? Do you just want people to ignore them? PHP can be a bit of a punching bag, even when it's not topical. But it's not exactly unwarranted.

Those decades of history are largely talking about a PHP that doesn't exist any more.

Yes, the language has it's warts, but if you think $language doesn't, you're just new to it.

There are many large PHP projects that generate tons of revenue. New frameworks like Laravel and Symfony 4 make whipping out MVPs that can scale pretty damn easy.

Re: ‘Product engineers’ vs ‘Software engineers’ in startups

#50

Great article. Here are some examples of how you know if you have a software engineer or product engineer at your startup (real experiences from me): CEO: We need to add a product search to our website so customers can easier find the products which they like. SE: Ok - and walks off and builds a search box into website. PE: Ok - walks off and builds a search box into the website. Also logs all search queries with zer…

So a 'product engineer' is a 'good software engineer'? Unless you are a drone you should always ask the questions of why something needs to be done before implementing it. The engineering part of software development has to be done before you start typing on a keyboard.
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