It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too • Hacker News Board

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#41

Post by Waterluvian » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #29

>It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too That short life-affirming quote structured like a pithy aphorism is hiding the true debate that motivates it. The real discussion before that quote is this: Some employers prefer programmers that like programming outside of work. For the other programmers that would rather constrain coding work to 40 hours a week, they feel that employer preference is…

Gonna bet that for whatever reasons they do it, people who code on their own time are on average better coders and will on average have an easier time gettinv employment. Isn't this true for any skill (except maybe neurosurgery)?

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#42

Post by peteretep » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:57 PM UTC

If you’re not sufficiently excited about programming that you want to spend your free time doing it, that’s fine. But don’t expect technical employers to be all that excited by you.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#43

Post by matz1 » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 3:01 PM UTC

yowlingcat wrote: post #37

gregf wrote: post #11

If you don't have the desire to do this after work you probably shouldn't even be in the field is how I look at it.

If you're not good enough to do your job competently (or not trying to actively get there) after experience doing this only at work, then I wouldn't hire you is how I look at it.

What if they good enough to do the job competently while doing it only at work and also code outside work that is unrelated with work?

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#44

Post by ghaff » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 3:06 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #41

jasode wrote: post #29

>It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too That short life-affirming quote structured like a pithy aphorism is hiding the true debate that motivates it. The real discussion before that quote is this: Some employers prefer programmers that like programming outside of work. For the other programmers that would rather constrain coding work to 40 hours a week, they feel that employer preference is…

Gonna bet that for whatever reasons they do it, people who code on their own time are on average better coders and will on average have an easier time gettinv employment. Isn't this true for any skill (except maybe neurosurgery)?

>Isn't this true for any skill

I'm not sure why it would hold that, if you do something for 40 hours a week, you'll necessarily improve if you do it for an even greater amount of time. And, besides, effectiveness as a developer is not just about coding anyway. A lot more goes into creating products and services than lines of code.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#45

Post by amthewiz » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 3:08 PM UTC

The field of software engineering changes rapidly and is complex to master. To remain good at the job, one must continue to explore and learn. The only way that is going to happen is if you are genuinely interested in the field. The best indicator of that is that you have pet projects outside of work.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#46

Post by Lazare » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 3:15 PM UTC

yowlingcat wrote: post #36

jasode wrote: post #29

>It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too That short life-affirming quote structured like a pithy aphorism is hiding the true debate that motivates it. The real discussion before that quote is this: Some employers prefer programmers that like programming outside of work. For the other programmers that would rather constrain coding work to 40 hours a week, they feel that employer preference is…

I don't know if I agree with your premises or conclusions. I think employers prefer engineers who are effective and have a past track record of success. For some companies, some of these are going to have a "can't rip my keyboard out of my hands" characteristic, but I've mostly found that working on software outside of work has minimal correlation with productivity. Engineers that are steadily growing and continuing…

> I think employers prefer engineers who are effective and have a past track record of success.

I have talked to startup founders who were very explicit that they only hired developers who coded obsessively outside of work. One was very clear: If you didn't have a public Github profile showing a track record of frequent commits on personal project outside of work hours, you would not be hired at his firm.

> I've mostly found that working on software outside of work has minimal correlation with productivity.

Same. That doesn't mean everyone is hiring based on that.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#47

Post by sametmax » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 3:15 PM UTC

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #38

arvinsim wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe hiring decisions are employers perogative. What I do appreciate is them being honest and upfront about it so that I don't waste time pursuing a job that might not fit me.

That works until their cumulative prerogatives shut you out of your chosen career because they're discriminating against you. Discrimination is simply avoiding the thing you don't prefer because you have a preference for something else. If you discriminate against enough people, it becomes a problem for people who don't fit into your prerogative.

Given that the market is so unbalanced in favor of programmers, and will keep being that way for the next 10 years, that's hardly an issue.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#48

Post by grumpy8 » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 3:15 PM UTC

tech is moving so fast, if you're not learning in your spare time, you'll quickly fall behind. That doesn't mean that you won't be able to find a job though

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#49

Post by Lazare » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 3:18 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #41

jasode wrote: post #29

>It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too That short life-affirming quote structured like a pithy aphorism is hiding the true debate that motivates it. The real discussion before that quote is this: Some employers prefer programmers that like programming outside of work. For the other programmers that would rather constrain coding work to 40 hours a week, they feel that employer preference is…

Gonna bet that for whatever reasons they do it, people who code on their own time are on average better coders and will on average have an easier time gettinv employment. Isn't this true for any skill (except maybe neurosurgery)?

That might be true for some physical/mechanical skills, such as sports. However, some quick googling shows that even professional athletes rarely average more than 40 hours a week practising over the course of a year, so even that's questionable.

And as for things like programming or any mental/intellectual skill like that? I highly doubt it.

As a general rule, you're going to see heavy diminishing returns on time invested. By the time you've spent 40 hours doing it, a few more hours on the weekend is unlikely to have any real benefit, and to the extent it causes burn out or takes the place of something that helps you stay healthy, it's likely to be a net negative.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#50

Post by yesenadam » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 3:19 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #17

gregf wrote: post #11

If you don't have the desire to do this after work you probably shouldn't even be in the field is how I look at it.

If you're serious, the way I look at it is that people like you are one of the problems with tech culture. Way too many people in tech have this attitude that there's something exceptional and unique about it that requires participants to be all-in 24 hours a day. It's not. And this sort of attitude discourages a large swath of the population from bringing their talents to the field.

>people like you are one of the problems with tech culture

And that's any kind of way to talk to someone?! I don't think so.

I was very surprised that the only downvoted comments on this page currently are by people who apparently don't understand how if you love programming, you never do it outside work. On Hacker News! Repeatedly on this page I've seen the total straw man response like yours of "requires participants to be all-in 24 hours a day". No-one's suggesting that. I don't understand how that seems an appropriate or adequate reply.

>And this sort of attitude discourages a large swath of the population from bringing their talents to the field.

I don't know what you mean there.