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Huawei Technicians Helped African Governments Spy on Political Opponents

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Re: Huawei Technicians Helped African Governments Spy on Political Opponents

#41

Post by ivanhoe »

motohagiography wrote: post #13

Huawei will likely become the main competition for NSO group and companies like it, but that's the least of the worlds worries. Governments with resource wealth don't need large public services that would operate a sophisticated intelligence service, so they outsource it. So far these governments have been doing point targeting against dissidents w/ mercenary surveillance companies, but it's possible these companies…

In Serbia it was primarily Israelis who sold all of the surveillance tech to the government, and now China seems to be pushing everyone else out of the market. It really makes a very little difference to common people, one foreign actor or the other, none of the sides is really altruistic in that game...

Re: Huawei Technicians Helped African Governments Spy on Political Opponents

#42

Post by NicoJuicy »

rolltiide wrote: post #33
NicoJuicy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still an ally, more than the Chinese will ever be. Just wait and see, the loans you are getting ( not investments) are for Chinese workers. The loans are at 4-6% if the work isn't executed by Chinese workers. That's not an ally

[flagged]

Yes, it is.

It's only funds, not resources.

Give me some trustworthy resources that say the IMF is both.

The Western world has been giving back colonies from a dark past.

That's a higher standard.

Fyi, the entire world has dark pasts, some more successful than others.

Re: Huawei Technicians Helped African Governments Spy on Political Opponents

#43

Post by rolltiide »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #42
rolltiide wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes, it is. It's only funds, not resources. Give me some trustworthy resources that say the IMF is both. The Western world has been giving back colonies from a dark past. That's a higher standard. Fyi, the entire world has dark pasts, some more successful than others.

I made an edit, I meant World Bank and USAID as they don't only lend to member countries.

I don't have sources I would quote, but I have enough to be told to look over there and see the cause and effect.

Developing countries are saddled with debt, and further crippled. Recipients of the debt are contractors. Austerity measures are needed to repay the debt, and the citizens are the ones burdened by it to help extract the country's natural resources to pay the debt.

Even IF an indictment of the World Bank is just crackpot conspiracies, it is a really good instruction manual. China's approach is running the same playbook but may even be more completely benign. Their industries have been entering emerging markets that others have decided not to effectively touch, without invading. Are they also running the regime change playbook too like the US did all last century? Time will tell. They are doing a lot for African markets. They don't need to be an "ally", everyone should be skeptical. Lightyears ahead of what the west is doing though.

Re: Huawei Technicians Helped African Governments Spy on Political Opponents

#44

Post by close04 »

ivanhoe wrote: post #41
motohagiography wrote: post #13

Huawei will likely become the main competition for NSO group and companies like it, but that's the least of the worlds worries. Governments with resource wealth don't need large public services that would operate a sophisticated intelligence service, so they outsource it. So far these governments have been doing point targeting against dissidents w/ mercenary surveillance companies, but it's possible these companies…

In Serbia it was primarily Israelis who sold all of the surveillance tech to the government, and now China seems to be pushing everyone else out of the market. It really makes a very little difference to common people, one foreign actor or the other, none of the sides is really altruistic in that game...

I think this is the real problem: China/Huawei are pushing their competition out of the "support an (oppressive) regime" business. They become the go-to partner for regimes that historically relied on western or middle-eastern partners maintaining their authority.

Re: Huawei Technicians Helped African Governments Spy on Political Opponents

#46

Post by close04 »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #42
rolltiide wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes, it is. It's only funds, not resources. Give me some trustworthy resources that say the IMF is both. The Western world has been giving back colonies from a dark past. That's a higher standard. Fyi, the entire world has dark pasts, some more successful than others.

Unfortunately the US now mostly has hostages rather than allies. There's always the threat of economic retaliation if the allies don't support US initiatives, no matter how outrageous ("let's start another war, Europe/Middle East/Africa can deal with the humanitarian consequences!"). And as the Snowden leaks have shown, the US is ready to try to cripple the infrastructure of their allies in case this is ever needed (the particular leak was about utilities and power).

This is not excusing China's attitude, and it's by no means (much) better. You wouldn't call someone who keeps slapping you over the face a friend just because they could have punched you.

Re: Huawei Technicians Helped African Governments Spy on Political Opponents

#47

Post by mrec »

heisenbit wrote: post #37
majia wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you said about Huawei is more applicable to Boeing, which sells weapon systems instead of telecom gears. You may want to look at how US companies are involved in arm sales to Saudi. It’s fair that US wants to contain China’s leverage in Africa and maintain its own, but this is a national security priority for US , not “everyone”.

But thankfully that Boing equipment is supported by advisors who‘s behavior is above board. Always!

Meh. How much damage can an unethically-supported trampoline do?

Re: Huawei Technicians Helped African Governments Spy on Political Opponents

#50

Post by Barrin92 »

scanny wrote: post #23
majia wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you said about Huawei is more applicable to Boeing, which sells weapon systems instead of telecom gears. You may want to look at how US companies are involved in arm sales to Saudi. It’s fair that US wants to contain China’s leverage in Africa and maintain its own, but this is a national security priority for US , not “everyone”.

Well the difference here is that in a liberal democracy we can prevent that from happening if we wish. Unless we don't have a majority that is https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-vetoes-congres...

no in a liberal democracy you can pretend that you could prevent it so that everyone can feel better about themselves while it happens
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