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35 Over 35

theamericanscholar.org

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Re: 35 Over 35

#41

Post by dwd »

acutesoftware wrote: post #7

Good article, it is obvious that as we get older we (statistically) have a lesser chance of success in winning an Olympic medal or out twitching the best FPS gamers - but for writing and IT work - age doesn't come into it. What does come into it (and why this bias continues) is that perhaps a highly percent of older IT workers are behind the times or irrelevant - some people simply stop wanting to learn and grow.

Define learning and growth. Do you mean being proficient with the flavour of the month shiny new language or framework; applying the latest syntax in a specific language, adding an additional domain of knowledge you can write code for or being up to date with any of the multitude of skills around writing code?

Often older IT people will recognise a dead-end idea that they have tried before which failed and are hesitant for good reason.

Re: 35 Over 35

#42

Post by taneq »

BigJono wrote: post #32
freyr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people really think this way, besides young people and tech managers? I'm over 35 and my productivity and capacity to learn new things has only continued to grow over time. It's true that many exceptional artifacts have been produced by people when they're relatively young. I think this is more a byproduct of ignorance (i.e., seeing the world with a fresh pair of eyes). But as this list shows, maybe age isn't the…

I think maybe it's possible that given a very smart programmer with 1-5 years experience, the value of not having had time to learn the wrong way of doing things far outweighs the value of another 10 or 20 years experience. A lot of our 'best practices' seem curiously tailored toward keeping mediocre developers in check and producing consistent rather than extraordinary results. Maybe our industry just grinds the gre…

I think if someone's better with 5 years' experience than 20 years' experience then they have a very low skill ceiling for the task at hand.

Part of that 20 years' experience, of course, is learning to ignore 'best practices' that actually aren't 'best' at all (or more likely, are 'best' for some situation you're not actually in).

Re: 35 Over 35

#43

Post by taneq »

hydrox24 wrote: post #8

What a good list. Most Australians would tell you if you asked them that you can achieve something extraordinary, or begin something new after the age of 35. But I think people are just trying to say the right thing. They know it's true in their heads, but I am not sure that their hearts know. I am under the age of 25, so well under 35, and I am hoping to live out this advice, and spend my early years learning to lea…

Really? I look at all of the big, successful companies around and their founders were typically over 35 when they founded them. Silicon Valley's young-founder-billionaire thing is hugely atypical in the rest of the world (and hugely atypical in Silicon Valley too, but the few who've made it huge are so visible that people think they're the norm.)

Re: 35 Over 35

#44

Post by ehnto »

baroffoos wrote: post #40
ekianjo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outliers. Most of the books written by younger people who have no experience in life will sound immature to anyone above their age.

How many of those great books written by over 40yo authors had never written books before that age allowing them to develop their writing skills?

Writing books is how you get good at writing books, and young people read books too, so it's no loss if an older reader feels it's immature. Perhaps in their wisdom, the older reader could find some empathy for the younger writers current lens that they are writing through.

Re: 35 Over 35

#45

Post by crispyporkbites »

It takes about 7 years on average to achieve proficiency in a given domain. Usually 3-5 years of study and 2-4 years of real world experience. If you really want to you can have 5 or 6 different careers in life.

Are you 35 and want to become a doctor? An architect? An engineer? An actor? Go back to school and you’ll get there by 42.

The problem is that most people either have financial commitments or too much pride to go back to the start again.

Re: 35 Over 35

#46

Post by Swizec »

angarg12 wrote: post #38
wenbin wrote: post #4

reminds me of this quora question and excellent answers What do people in Silicon Valley plan to do once they are over 35 since most will neither make it big nor move up the management chain of command? https://www.quora.com/What-do-people-in-Silicon-Valley-plan-...

This is something I'm battling with right now. As I get older, it's more common to see people younger than me being more successful. When you are starting your career, you only see all the possibilities to fulfill your goals. As you age and don't get quite there, you start to question if you are good enough, and wonder if you'll ever reach your goals, or should just give up. It takes a lot of discipline to keep the r…

As someone going through this right now (turning 32 in October, eek) I've come to realize a few things that have helped.

"Good enough" is an all encompassing set of criteria. You can be the most brilliant person in the world, but if you are unable or unwilling to take the necessary risks to achieve X, then you re not good enough. If you're too risk taking, that's also not good enough. Everything plays into that.

Like a former F1 driver whose name I can't remember said in a podcast once: "Yeah I was good. I was really good. On my best days I was faster than Schumacher, Senna, Prost, and all of them" ... "So why weren't you champion?" ... "Well that's the thing. I was amazing on my good days. The real champions, the ones that make history, they don't have bad days or good days. They're _always_ at their best."

The other realization: You play the cards you've got, not the cards you wish you had. Wherever you are right now, whatever you've got in terms of skill, assets, connections, etc ... that's what you've got to work with. Focus on playing the hand you have the best way you can.

Re: 35 Over 35

#47

Post by ehnto »

hydrox24 wrote: post #8

What a good list. Most Australians would tell you if you asked them that you can achieve something extraordinary, or begin something new after the age of 35. But I think people are just trying to say the right thing. They know it's true in their heads, but I am not sure that their hearts know. I am under the age of 25, so well under 35, and I am hoping to live out this advice, and spend my early years learning to lea…

I'm only thirty, but my view is that my ability to succeed only grows as I get older as I have more world experience, knowledge and connections to pull from.

Also from Australia, and we are a pretty optimistic bunch in polite company. My opinion is that people are increasingly more likely to settle for the life they have already, so they don't try big things, not that they get less likely to succeed at them.

As someone else pointed out though, we aren't in the silicon valley rat race. We have a much less turbulent and ephemeral economy to work in. I think if you take on real problems you can see long term success here, it's just not going to be a billion dollar venture funded exit.

Re: 35 Over 35

#48

Post by mrtksn »

angarg12 wrote: post #38
wenbin wrote: post #4

reminds me of this quora question and excellent answers What do people in Silicon Valley plan to do once they are over 35 since most will neither make it big nor move up the management chain of command? https://www.quora.com/What-do-people-in-Silicon-Valley-plan-...

This is something I'm battling with right now. As I get older, it's more common to see people younger than me being more successful. When you are starting your career, you only see all the possibilities to fulfill your goals. As you age and don't get quite there, you start to question if you are good enough, and wonder if you'll ever reach your goals, or should just give up. It takes a lot of discipline to keep the r…

Just update your goals. Who says that one accomplishment is better than the other? You are not a quitter or a failure only because you did not complete a goal that was arbitrarily created by a younger you or someone else.

Surely some material success needs to be accomplished but it is proven that above a certain level the returns of it in term of happiness diminish.

You can also forget about goals that younger you imposed on you. I am sure that even younger you imposed even sillier goals that you just outgrew. Maybe you aspired to be the best in Counter-Strike, date the most popular girl/guy in high school or becoming a great PHP developer who works for Yahoo? Who knows but nobody cares anymore.

You can outgrow the current ones too.

Opportunities and aspirations come and go as we grow, age, get sick or well, poorer or richer. Don't stick to the old ones and explore the ones that are appropriate to your situation.

Re: 35 Over 35

#49

Post by Swizec »

BigJono wrote: post #32
freyr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people really think this way, besides young people and tech managers? I'm over 35 and my productivity and capacity to learn new things has only continued to grow over time. It's true that many exceptional artifacts have been produced by people when they're relatively young. I think this is more a byproduct of ignorance (i.e., seeing the world with a fresh pair of eyes). But as this list shows, maybe age isn't the…

I think maybe it's possible that given a very smart programmer with 1-5 years experience, the value of not having had time to learn the wrong way of doing things far outweighs the value of another 10 or 20 years experience. A lot of our 'best practices' seem curiously tailored toward keeping mediocre developers in check and producing consistent rather than extraordinary results. Maybe our industry just grinds the gre…

> Maybe our industry just grinds the greatness out of you by 25 or 30 unless you actively fight it.

Maybe people just get tired of churning out CRUD apps after 10 years and want to do something else. A lot of stuff loses its charm after you see behind the curtain.

Re: 35 Over 35

#50

Post by mmjaa »

freyr wrote: post #16
automathematics wrote: post #2

Love this. People like to think they can't do anything as they get older. That mental state will be a self fulfilling prophecy!

Do people really think this way, besides young people and tech managers? I'm over 35 and my productivity and capacity to learn new things has only continued to grow over time. It's true that many exceptional artifacts have been produced by people when they're relatively young. I think this is more a byproduct of ignorance (i.e., seeing the world with a fresh pair of eyes). But as this list shows, maybe age isn't the…

I completely concur. I've been programming since I was a teenager, practically grew up with computers, and I'm 50 now.

I'm still just as productive as I was in my 20's, but now I've got decades more experience than my peers and can see things that the hubris and arrogance of youth never let me see before - like, how important it is to be able to work with others, not hold onto projects selfishly .. how important it is to check oneself before one wrecks oneself, and so on.

If I had a way, there'd be so much advice I'd give to my younger self...

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