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US could ban 'addictive' autoplay videos and infinite scrolling online

theguardian.com

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Re: US could ban 'addictive' autoplay videos and infinite scrolling online

#41

Post by rafpaf »

The internet giants are trying to addict us to their products. I despise this and welcome solutions including regulation. However, the proposed law is stupendously overbroad.

It bans "the use of a process that, without the user expressly requesting additional content, loads and displays more content into a content feed than the typical user scrolls through in 3 minutes." So long, Google Maps? (Unless scrolling the map counts as an 'express request', but if it does then scrolling to the bottom of an infinite-scrolling page would count.)

The bill also bans "providing a user with an award for engaging with the social media platform (such as a badge or other recognition of a user’s level of engagement with the platform) if such award does not substantially increase access to new or additional services, content, or functionality." The point of this clause is to ban "Snapstreaks" as the Guardian article says. But if "substantially increase" is a low bar, then Snapchat can meet it. And if it's a high bar, then many nonaddictive karma systems would be banned. So long, StackOverflow and Hacker News.

The proposed law requires social media platforms to "allow a user to set a time limit that blocks the user’s own access to those platforms" — that sounds more helpful. But it goes on to require them to "automatically limit the amount of time that a user may spend on those platforms across all devices to 30 minutes a day unless the user elects to adjust or remove the time limit and, if the user elects to increase or remove the time limit, resets the time limit to 30 minutes a day on the first day of every month." This just sounds bananas. Today, the techlash; tomorrow, the regulation-lash.

The law says, "When an operator requests a user to make a selection from among options, no option may be preselected." MY BRAIN IS MELTING. So, in an address form, I can't pre-guess the user's country/state/province (even if those guesses are based on previous input)? My forms can't have DEFAULTS?

The law is overbroad — but in another way, it's too easy to elude. It says you're not a social media platform unless you "enable users to create accounts or profiles specific to [your platform]." But then, as long as accounts on YouTube are really Google-wide accounts, the law doesn't apply to YouTube — even though it mentions YouTube as one of its targets.

Who wrote this bill?

Re: US could ban 'addictive' autoplay videos and infinite scrolling online

#42

Post by jjulius »

wojcikstefan wrote: post #4

Regulating infinite scrolling seems like a major overregulation. Even if it kinda makes sense in terms of FB, Twitter, and other social media newsfeeds, it's still a great (and beneficial) UX in many other cases. Overusing social media could be solved via e.g. Screen Time or a similar time-limiting solution (perhaps w/o an option to "snooze" the daily limit if a parent set it on a child's device).

Infinite scrolling exists in social media apps because it triggers a dopamine response in users. It's there to keep people addicted to the app, and it's foolish for us to think that smartphone addiction isn't a real problem. Because of that, I fully support this legislation in regards to social media. There are legitimate use cases outside of social media where it's beneficial to have infinite scrolling, but if it was implemented to keep a user hooked, it needs to go.

Re: US could ban 'addictive' autoplay videos and infinite scrolling online

#43

Post by TeMPOraL »

tiborsaas wrote: post #27
madiathomas wrote: post #8

I don't like sites with autoplay. I only expect autoplay when the page I am about to visit is in a video site like YouTube. I hate it when I am reading a news article and a video autoplays. Autoscrolling also can be irritating. If I click a TechCrunch article on HN, I don't want TC to load more articles at the end of the article I was reading without my consent. It is better to suggest related articles and give me an…

> I only expect autoplay when the page I am about to visit is in a video site like YouTube. Here's the problem with it. There are exceptions, but it's extremely difficult to write the law in a way that can't be gamed if you allow exceptions.

Let's ban interfering with ad blockers then. Let's enshrine the spirit of the HTTP protocol by legally reinforcing the core idea - the server only provides content and suggests how to show it; the User Agent renders it however it likes.

Do this, and autoplay issue will sort itself out.

Re: US could ban 'addictive' autoplay videos and infinite scrolling online

#44

Post by NikkiA »

madiathomas wrote: post #8

I don't like sites with autoplay. I only expect autoplay when the page I am about to visit is in a video site like YouTube. I hate it when I am reading a news article and a video autoplays. Autoscrolling also can be irritating. If I click a TechCrunch article on HN, I don't want TC to load more articles at the end of the article I was reading without my consent. It is better to suggest related articles and give me an…

I don't want YT to autoplay either, and you used to be able to make it not autoplay in the settings, but that was too useful I guess.

Re: US could ban 'addictive' autoplay videos and infinite scrolling online

#45

Post by JasonFruit »

epistasis wrote: post #26

The Republican Party in the US is famously anti-regulation of large corporations, and "pro-business," yet this is coming from the Republican side. Is there any sort of rationale provided for this seemingly massive ideological shift? Regulation of industry is usually off the table when this party is in control, at least when it comes to pollution or other consumer harms by business.

American politicians are famously unable to articulate consistent principles, and their voters are little better. I don't find it surprising that Republicans are unable to see this sort of invasive regulation in the same light they see regulation of other business practices. Maybe nobody's making it worth their time to see it that way. Maybe they see this as a bone they can throw to the public to get a few votes before they go back to guarding their power hoard. At any rate, there are only about seven or eight people with real, consistent principles in the U.S. Congress, and I'm not aware that Josh Hawley is among them.

Re: US could ban 'addictive' autoplay videos and infinite scrolling online

#46

Post by Kaveren »

orbifold wrote: post #23
tooop wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a social media problem not infinite scrolling problem.

Tell that to a person in bed, scrolling through Facebook for hours on end. If the content stopped at some point they would do something else hopefully. Compared to TV the pacing is such that people get hooked like on slot machines.

And this will solve it how? All it does is create the awful user experience of having to manually tap continue. If, instead, the law prevented scrolling past a certain limit (which would be very stupid indeed, but this is just a hypothetical), users would simply switch to the next social media app.

Re: US could ban 'addictive' autoplay videos and infinite scrolling online

#47

Post by Kaveren »

corodra wrote: post #31
coldcode wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then ban social media, not a UI feature. Clearly this law is beyond stupid. What next, banning sunglasses because people might have shifty eyes?

Well, ban cigarettes instead of the mechanism for gaining and retaining customers (ads). But the gov banned the widespread advertising of cigarettes instead of banning the product. The usa now has around a 14% smoking population, compared to like a 50% back in the 50s.

A lot of that can likely be attributed to increased public awareness of the dangers of smoking.

Re: US could ban 'addictive' autoplay videos and infinite scrolling online

#48

Post by jjulius »

tooop wrote: post #15
corodra wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search "social media mental health study". Theres a flood of universities that have pretty good evidence of social media causing a lot of mental health issues. Namely towards teens and young adults who grew up with it. Yes, it does seem silly, but the rise of anxiety and depression in society is linked to social media. Theres a good reason why people do the social media fasts and cleanses. A lot don't go back.

That is a social media problem not infinite scrolling problem.

Infinite scrolling triggers a dopamine response in users, not unlike a slot machine. It's sole purpose is to keep users hooked on the app. It's designed to be addictive.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/automatic-you/201208...

Re: US could ban 'addictive' autoplay videos and infinite scrolling online

#49

Post by gdfasfklshg4 »

tooop wrote: post #37
orbifold wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to a person in bed, scrolling through Facebook for hours on end. If the content stopped at some point they would do something else hopefully. Compared to TV the pacing is such that people get hooked like on slot machines.

I highly doubt that showing something like "There are X new great posts from blah blah blah, check them out" instead of using infinite scroll will resolve the problem. At the end of the day one could simply load a million posts (probably needs some code/data optimizations but we are talking here about billion dollar companies) and now it is a finite scroll (EDIT: seems that the bill addresses this case).

Hence only 3 minutes of content per click...
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