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Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

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Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#41

Post by Phenomenit »

m12k wrote: post #16

What's HN's thoughts on IoT? To me it looks like yet another buzzword from the "wouldn't it be neat?" crowd (the same people who previously gave us a lot of hype about Semantic Web and P2P social networks) but as before none of the applications are actually worth the hassle, this prevents critical mass from ever being reached, and in reality it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging…

Ikea has definitely helped make it more "mainstream" and there selection is just getting bigger and bigger and they are relatively open and easy to access from other software and most importantly cheap.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#42

Post by tiniuclx »

sjwright wrote: post #5

The article seems to lack a TLDR so here's one. It is a "software distribution for smart home gateways which allows users to directly monitor and control their smart home over the web, without a middleman." Devices supported: - Raspberry Pi - Turris Omnia Protocols supported: - HomeKit - ZigBee - Thread - MQTT - Weave - AMQP Framework languages supported: - JS (Node.js) - Python - Rust - Java - C++ (for Arduino) Home…

Supporting Thread in particular is an interesting choice, because as far as I'm aware Thread is one of the most open-source IoT stacks[0]. Thread isn't really used in consumer hardware, which is probably the reason it's so obscure within the hacker community, but there's a lot of buzz around it within industry groups. Companies like Google, ARM, Amazon, LG, NXP, Samsung and many others are supporting the development of Thread.

What's interesting about Thread is that it takes advantage of IPv6 to allow any device on a network to talk to the World Wide Web. Usually, you can only talk to your IoT gateway over the web, and then tell it to control its children. Thread simplifies all of that and lets you directly talk to any child via its IPv6 address[1].

Compared to some other IoT protocols, Thread also takes a strong stance on security: unlike other protocols such as Bluetooth Low Energy, you cannot create an unsecure Thread network[2], you must have the correct credentials to talk to any Thread network, and all communications are encrypted.

I believe that Thread is going to be a very important part of the future of IoT, and I'm excited to see what comes next.

[0] https://openthread.io/

[1] https://www.threadgroup.org/What-is-Thread

[2] https://www.threadgroup.org/Portals/0/documents/support/Thre...

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#43

Post by r3bl »

rohan1024 wrote: post #39
sjwright wrote: post #5

The article seems to lack a TLDR so here's one. It is a "software distribution for smart home gateways which allows users to directly monitor and control their smart home over the web, without a middleman." Devices supported: - Raspberry Pi - Turris Omnia Protocols supported: - HomeKit - ZigBee - Thread - MQTT - Weave - AMQP Framework languages supported: - JS (Node.js) - Python - Rust - Java - C++ (for Arduino) Home…

> without a middleman Are you saying that I should be able to connect to my home directly over the Internet? How does it bypass NAT.

The goal of this is to be hosted on a router. I'm assuming it wouldn't go around NAT as much as replace NAT by replacing router's firmware.

You've guessed correctly that this is one of the most painful parts of the setup. I use a different open source product for the same purpose (Home Assistant), and it allows me to go around NAT manually (use dynamic DNS service, open up the port on a router, route it to a local device, issue a Let's Encrypt certificate) or pay them a few bucks per month to ease the pain.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#44

Post by jsty »

jon_richards wrote: post #40
icebraining wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IoT is a great success - in industry. At home, from what I can tell, it mostly divides into: - People who apparently live in warzones and need military-level surveillance of their home - People who want to feel like they're living in the Star Trek universe - People with very specific needs, who might take advantage of a commercial IoT device or two in their overall setup

I'd love to have blackout blinds that close every night and open 30 minutes before my alarm goes off. I haven't been able to find a quality (quiet!) product that does this.

I saw IKEA launched some 'smart blinds' a couple of days ago, and this [0] review mentions timers

[0] https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/3865106-3865106

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#45

Post by xienze »

m12k wrote: post #16

What's HN's thoughts on IoT? To me it looks like yet another buzzword from the "wouldn't it be neat?" crowd (the same people who previously gave us a lot of hype about Semantic Web and P2P social networks) but as before none of the applications are actually worth the hassle, this prevents critical mass from ever being reached, and in reality it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging…

>it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging me for non-repairable planned-obsolescence-ridden products, to overcharge me a bit more.

I agree, but I think the goal is to overcharge you “a lot” more. It seems like no matter what the product is, once it’s “smart”, the price floor is $50.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#46

Post by r3bl »

temporaryvector wrote: post #30
m12k wrote: post #16

What's HN's thoughts on IoT? To me it looks like yet another buzzword from the "wouldn't it be neat?" crowd (the same people who previously gave us a lot of hype about Semantic Web and P2P social networks) but as before none of the applications are actually worth the hassle, this prevents critical mass from ever being reached, and in reality it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging…

I look at it as something that's not really a necessity, but has the potential to improve my quality of life. Unfortunately, most current implementations of the idea are pretty bad. Having to take out my phone or speaking to a voice assistant to turn my lights off or on isn't all that useful. Where IoT really comes into it's own is either doing stuff automatically or doing stuff without requiring my presence (remotel…

I use NFC tags as a trigger. I simply hover my phone over a tag and an action happens in the background. It feels much better than dealing with separate apps and always-on microphones.

> If IoT wants to move away from the current status as expensive, unreliable gimmicks, companies need to stop focusing on the idea of separate smart things and start thinking in terms of smart homes

Why would they do that? They do want to offer you a smart home, but a home that's entirely under their control, using either their own gadgets or compatible ones (so that they could charge other companies for the compatibility stickers).

There are plenty of protocols, and plenty of apps that support a protocol or two, but not every. Home Assistant and this project from Mozilla attempt to bridge that gap. I don't understand what Mozilla sees in an attempt to fight an established open source project like Home Assistant, but they probably have a reason or two. Such reasons are not yet obvious to me, so I'm going to continue using Home Assistant for my purposes. Every device I've purchased works locally, so I have one device that hosts the server, one interface that controls it (Progressive Web App, to be more precise), and NFC tags plastered over my apartment that trigger stuff without the need to even look at that one interface.

That's the sweet spot for me and it really feels like the future is already here. My choice of gadgets is rather limited (since I refuse to purchase any IoT device that can't be made to work locally), but so far I've yet to face a problem that I'm unable to find a solution for.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#47

Post by tlrobinson »

tiniuclx wrote: post #42
sjwright wrote: post #5

The article seems to lack a TLDR so here's one. It is a "software distribution for smart home gateways which allows users to directly monitor and control their smart home over the web, without a middleman." Devices supported: - Raspberry Pi - Turris Omnia Protocols supported: - HomeKit - ZigBee - Thread - MQTT - Weave - AMQP Framework languages supported: - JS (Node.js) - Python - Rust - Java - C++ (for Arduino) Home…

Supporting Thread in particular is an interesting choice, because as far as I'm aware Thread is one of the most open-source IoT stacks[0]. Thread isn't really used in consumer hardware, which is probably the reason it's so obscure within the hacker community, but there's a lot of buzz around it within industry groups. Companies like Google, ARM, Amazon, LG, NXP, Samsung and many others are supporting the development…

> Usually, you can only talk to your IoT gateway over the web, and then tell it to control its children. Thread simplifies all of that and lets you directly talk to any child via its IPv6 address[1].

But I don’t want every one of my potentially buggy IoT devices to be directly addressable on the Internet.

Ideally they’d each be isolated, with the minimum connectivity needed to the hub.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#48

Post by SomeHacker44 »

jon_richards wrote: post #40
icebraining wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IoT is a great success - in industry. At home, from what I can tell, it mostly divides into: - People who apparently live in warzones and need military-level surveillance of their home - People who want to feel like they're living in the Star Trek universe - People with very specific needs, who might take advantage of a commercial IoT device or two in their overall setup

I'd love to have blackout blinds that close every night and open 30 minutes before my alarm goes off. I haven't been able to find a quality (quiet!) product that does this.

I have Hunter Douglas Pirouette blinds in my room, controlled by Control4. They are very quiet when going from open to close or vice versa, but loud going up to down. Look at a video to understand the difference. Recommended, but not cheap.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#49

Post by tiniuclx »

tlrobinson wrote: post #47
tiniuclx wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supporting Thread in particular is an interesting choice, because as far as I'm aware Thread is one of the most open-source IoT stacks[0]. Thread isn't really used in consumer hardware, which is probably the reason it's so obscure within the hacker community, but there's a lot of buzz around it within industry groups. Companies like Google, ARM, Amazon, LG, NXP, Samsung and many others are supporting the development…

> Usually, you can only talk to your IoT gateway over the web, and then tell it to control its children. Thread simplifies all of that and lets you directly talk to any child via its IPv6 address[1]. But I don’t want every one of my potentially buggy IoT devices to be directly addressable on the Internet. Ideally they’d each be isolated, with the minimum connectivity needed to the hub.

Yes, you can isolate individual devices the same way you'd isolate any IPv6 device on your home network - using a firewall. Normally you would firewall away your entire home network and only open up connectivity to the devices you want.

Additionally, you can configure the firewall on the Border Router as well, which is the device that actually interfaces between Thread and other networks.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#50

Post by _pmf_ »

m12k wrote: post #16

What's HN's thoughts on IoT? To me it looks like yet another buzzword from the "wouldn't it be neat?" crowd (the same people who previously gave us a lot of hype about Semantic Web and P2P social networks) but as before none of the applications are actually worth the hassle, this prevents critical mass from ever being reached, and in reality it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging…

It gets the sweet government grants, at least in Europe.
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