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Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

sciencedaily.com

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Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#41

Post by glastra »

hirenj wrote: post #40
glastra wrote: post #35

> Atherosclerosis -- the clogging of arteries with fatty deposits What a way to start an article in a website with "science" in its name. Atheroma is an accumulation of white blood cells. White. Blood. Cells. Not fat. "Meat bad, saturated fat bad, eat your necessarily fortified grains and heart-healthy industrially extracted seed oils."

-oma is a suffix that means tumour. E.g. lymphoma. -sclerosis is a hardening. E.g arthrosclerosis for a hardening of joints.

I fail to see what this has to do with my comment.

The hardening in atherosclerosis is caused directly and exclusively by atheroma.

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#42

Post by anvandare »

dilawar wrote: post #9

I wonder if a gone lost hundreds of years ago is somehow _responsible_, then why heart attack related death mostly occured in last 50 years?

The greatest risks to your health throughout history were (contagious) diseases and infections. With the advent of sanitation, food safety, modern medicine, etc., their percentage has dropped significantly.

But "you gotta die of something", so when one cause drops in rate, another rises. So if you're stubborn (lucky) enough not to die of anything else, it'll probably be either cancer or heart-related that gets you: up from 12% of all deaths in 1900 to 47% in 2010.[1]

In short, we're more likely to die of affluence diseases[2] if we're not dying of poverty diseases.[3]

[1] https://demography.cpc.unc.edu/2014/06/16/mortality-and-caus...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_affluence

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diseases_of_poverty

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#43

Post by kqr »

taurath wrote: post #21
svachalek wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 19th century, a heart attack may have been recorded as "old age", "sudden death", "apoplexy", "stomach cramps", "spasms", or a lot of other things. As long there weren't any suspicious circumstances I don't think they usually looked into it that closely.

I mean, this was when amputation and leeches was the pinnacle of medicinal triage. Life expectancy hit 49 in 1900 - for most of the 1800s it was below 40, a fact that still blows my mind today.

...are you aware that most of that low life expectancy was caused by infant and child mortality? Once you lived past 15, you were expected to stick around at least to your 60s, if not more.

So yes, modern medicine is a Herculean effort in many ways. One of them is that it saves so many of our otherwise very frail and helpless children.

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#46

Post by eevilspock »

glastra wrote: post #35

> Atherosclerosis -- the clogging of arteries with fatty deposits What a way to start an article in a website with "science" in its name. Atheroma is an accumulation of white blood cells. White. Blood. Cells. Not fat. "Meat bad, saturated fat bad, eat your necessarily fortified grains and heart-healthy industrially extracted seed oils."

Atherosclerosis:

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Atherosclerosis

"When plaque (fatty deposits) clogs your arteries, that’s called atherosclerosis."

~ American Heart Association (https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/cholesterol/about-cho...)

"Atherosclerosis is a disease in which plaque builds up inside your arteries....Plaque is made up of fat, cholesterol, calcium, and other substances found in the blood."

~ https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/atherosclerosis

"Atherosclerosis refers to the buildup of fats, cholesterol and other substances in and on your artery walls (plaque), which can restrict blood flow."

~ https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/arteriosclero...

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#47

Post by cageface »

glastra wrote: post #41
hirenj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-oma is a suffix that means tumour. E.g. lymphoma. -sclerosis is a hardening. E.g arthrosclerosis for a hardening of joints.

I fail to see what this has to do with my comment. The hardening in atherosclerosis is caused directly and exclusively by atheroma.

Atherosclerosis refers to the buildup of fats, cholesterol and other substances in and on your artery walls (plaque), which can restrict blood flow.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/arteriosclero...

An atheroma, or atheromatous plaque ("plaque"), is an abnormal accumulation of material in the inner layer of the wall of an artery; it is present in the arteries of most adults.[1] The material consists of mostly macrophage cells,[2][3] or debris, containing lipids, calcium and a variable amount of fibrous connective tissue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheroma

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#48

Post by sambe »

glastra wrote: post #41
hirenj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-oma is a suffix that means tumour. E.g. lymphoma. -sclerosis is a hardening. E.g arthrosclerosis for a hardening of joints.

I fail to see what this has to do with my comment. The hardening in atherosclerosis is caused directly and exclusively by atheroma.

Everything I've ever read says fatty deposits. The NHS website calls fatty deposits "atheroma". You can find multiple definitions of atherosclerosis/atheroma in other places describing them the same way. Wikipedia says:

"While the early stages, based on gross appearance, have traditionally been termed fatty streaks by pathologists, they are not composed of fat cells but of accumulations of white blood cells, especially macrophages, that have taken up oxidized low-density lipoprotein (LDL)."

So whilst it may be more accurate to say they are white blood cells that fed on LDL (and presumably contain fatty substances as a result) there is a long tradition of calling them fatty substances, and there is at minimum a connection to fat.

It seems misleading to try to discount the role of the fat to me. They don't sound like they are just normal white blood cells. Is there any doubt that the fat plays a causative role? I know a couple of cardiologists who say it is clear. Do you have some references for the idea that fat is not relevant?

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#49

Post by glastra »

cageface wrote: post #47
glastra wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see what this has to do with my comment. The hardening in atherosclerosis is caused directly and exclusively by atheroma.

Atherosclerosis refers to the buildup of fats, cholesterol and other substances in and on your artery walls (plaque), which can restrict blood flow. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/arteriosclero... An atheroma, or atheromatous plaque ("plaque"), is an abnormal accumulation of material in the inner layer of the wall of an artery; it is present in the arteries of most adults.[1] The material consists of…

Pardon my confusion: is this comment for or against the parent?

"Plaque" and "atheroma" are synonyms in the context of cardiovascular health.

Also, both quotes together go to show the ongoing misconception. Nowhere in the first quote are macrophages and other WBCs mentioned (but they are in the second, luckily). I guess this is what happens when you use quotes from different sources, too.

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#50

Post by contravariant »

sambe wrote: post #48
glastra wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see what this has to do with my comment. The hardening in atherosclerosis is caused directly and exclusively by atheroma.

Everything I've ever read says fatty deposits. The NHS website calls fatty deposits "atheroma". You can find multiple definitions of atherosclerosis/atheroma in other places describing them the same way. Wikipedia says: "While the early stages, based on gross appearance, have traditionally been termed fatty streaks by pathologists, they are not composed of fat cells but of accumulations of white blood cells, especial…

I see. Yeah calling stuff wrapped in macrophages 'white blood cells' is a bit confusing, given that macrophages will wrap around just about any substance that your immune system tries to remove.
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