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Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

hongkongfp.com

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Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#41

Post by AFascistWorld »

literallycancer wrote: post #32
AFascistWorld wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The siege happened yesterday, and Chinese mouthpieces and websites are calling it a blatant provocation on sovereignty by thugs.

Why does it matter what the Chinese mouthpieces say? They will always find a reason when they want to fuck someone up.

That looks like a high horse? The consequences will not be borne by you but by the HK public, and when that hurt their daily lives you better wish they won't change their mind.

Also, you don't care what they say but there are 1.4 billion people that do, and lies will become truth.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#42

Post by keanzu »

Excellent analysis here on HN:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20492145

The Chinese and HK governments have realized they've lost the culture wars and public opinion so they've resorted to the tried and tested handbook of authoritarian governments, to create a cycle of violence to create justification for cracking down.

This is a provocation. Protesters will now counter arm themselves with similar bats and sticks, which in turn will give the police extra justification when they uncover "weapons". It will be used by the Chinese domestic media as justification to crack down hard.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#43

Post by underthebus »

benj111 wrote: post #40
underthebus wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if I wish they could just gain independence, it seems unlikely, and it's not like any foreign power would go to war to protect HK. I never understood this. Why would HK gain 'independence'? Why would a foreign power 'protect' HK? (protect from what?) HK has been used to build a narrative that is rather strange... Frankly people in HK calling for independence are a bit like, say, the Texas Nationalist Movement…

The population of Hong Kong is apparently 7+ million, and 2 million went on one of the marches. Doesn't seem 'fringe' to me. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-48656471

Trying to claim that these 2 million people campaign for HK independence is not honest.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#44

Post by huffmsa »

croo wrote: post #17

There are a few good summary comments about the situation on /r/worldnews like: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/cg1sh2/chaos_and... What I personally find astounding that the police were pulled out right before the fight, the 999 operators hanged up for the callers and nearby police stations were closed during the event.

What's surprising about that? The HK government is necessarily compliant with the Mainland. Isn't that one of the root issues here?

It'd be unexpected if they didn't stand down while PLA grunts, I mean "triad gangsters", put a beating on the protestors.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#45

Post by cgriswald »

lm28469 wrote: post #12
sgjohnson wrote: post #7

Seems like they could use the 2nd amendment there.

Yes, more guns is always the solution !!! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/2010_hom...

Voting and protesting are resulting in oppression and physical assault.

Your argument, such as it is, is equivalent to saying people should not be allowed to defend themselves, because someone might get hurt. It rests on the hidden assumption that guns cause violence, which isn't supported by the evidence you offer; and flies in the face of the actual violence in HK.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#46

Post by simonh »

underthebus wrote: post #33
riffraff wrote: post #5

I am very curious, but worried, of the situation in HK. Concretely, it seems HKers can protest as much as they want, but when push comes to shove, the PRC will just end up crushing them and the parts of democracy they still have. I can't imagine how they may get any other outcome. Even if I wish they could just gain independence, it seems unlikely, and it's not like any foreign power would go to war to protect HK.

> Even if I wish they could just gain independence, it seems unlikely, and it's not like any foreign power would go to war to protect HK. I never understood this. Why would HK gain 'independence'? Why would a foreign power 'protect' HK? (protect from what?) HK has been used to build a narrative that is rather strange... Frankly people in HK calling for independence are a bit like, say, the Texas Nationalist Movement…

I don't think most HKers, even protesters, expect independence. They're just trying to keep the freedoms they already have. The protests aren't campaigning for new rights or new freedoms, but to prevent new laws taking existing rights away.

I think a lot of HKers are coming to realise that under the current political system their rights are always going to be under threat, and eventually will be eroded completely. The only way to prevent that is true democracy. So it's not that true democracy is the motivation for this.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#47

Post by underthebus »

BubRoss wrote: post #29
bitskits wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really the right course of action, given the protests are a push back against China asserting control and surveillance over HK's citizens?

The protests are over a law allowing China to extradite people without any process. Also government mass surveillance and identifying people who were recorded in public by a citizen commiting violence aren't the same thing. I wish I didn't have to explain this.

> The protests are over a law allowing China to extradite people without any process.

That is not true that there would not have been any process.

There would have been a full legal process like any extradition: I.e. extradition would have been requested based on a legal case, this would have been examined by a HK court with the 'accused' able to defend, then that HK court would have made a decision. [That's the actual bill]

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#48

Post by dsfyu404ed »

hrktb wrote: post #30
briandear wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly the reason the 2nd Amendment exists in the US constitution. It certainly wasn’t to protect target shooting and hunting, but to protect against precisely the sort of oppression happening in Hong Kong. Governments should fear the people, not the other way around. The 2nd Amendment is a check on tyranny. Those that are downvoting the parent, what’s the solution? In China, you can’t protest your way to fr…

Does the US government fear its own people ? From the outside, it seems that police equipment escalated to get army grade vehicles and weapons, and the army has been to enough wars involving fighting civilians that they could crush most opposition in a matter of days. Then what's happening in HK is masked "civilians" committing crimes, so the manifestant reacting to them with violence would also fall on the illegal s…

>From the outside, it seems that police equipment escalated to get army grade vehicles and weapons, and the army has been to enough wars involving fighting civilians that they could crush most opposition in a matter of days.

Sure they "could" but will they. Right now the mainland populace knows nothing of this. If you let it turn into a bloodbath that could create a big enough international incident that people could find out. Is it worth the risk?

> it would be game for the police to intervene openly as strongly as they want.

And when the police don't want to prevent violence you get stuff like this[1].

Now, obviously the moral high ground in that example is reversed but my point is that the police need to want to prevent violent retribution if the locals want to inflict it and they are to prevent violent retribution.

[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Duluth-l...

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#49

Post by austhrow743 »

lm28469 wrote: post #12
sgjohnson wrote: post #7

Seems like they could use the 2nd amendment there.

Yes, more guns is always the solution !!! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/2010_hom...

It's better that a thousand individuals get to kill each other than one person be oppressed by a government.
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