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France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

bbc.com

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Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#41

Post by 99052882514569 »

alt_f4 wrote: post #18
99052882514569 wrote: post #3

Taxing digital companies based on digital presence certainly makes sense to me, as a layperson. A company that's selling ads to a French company that wants to show those ads to French users is doing business in France, end of story. Taxing only very large corporations - that's a little more questionable, but plenty of countries (including the US) treat small businesses preferentially, so it's not like it's unpreceden…

> company that's selling ads to a French company that wants to show those ads to French users is doing business in France, end of story. yeah, so taxes make sense to pay for the roads, bridges and healthcare that these ads are using.

Taxes make sense to pay for the court system that's enforcing contracts, just to name the first thing that comes to mind.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#42

Post by ziddoap »

alt_f4 wrote: post #18
99052882514569 wrote: post #3

Taxing digital companies based on digital presence certainly makes sense to me, as a layperson. A company that's selling ads to a French company that wants to show those ads to French users is doing business in France, end of story. Taxing only very large corporations - that's a little more questionable, but plenty of countries (including the US) treat small businesses preferentially, so it's not like it's unpreceden…

> company that's selling ads to a French company that wants to show those ads to French users is doing business in France, end of story. yeah, so taxes make sense to pay for the roads, bridges and healthcare that these ads are using.

Where the taxes are coming from and what they are used for do not need to be in the same industry or sector. Maybe it's different where you live?

E.G. An oil company being taxed for the revenue it made during an oil project does not get ear-marked for oil-only usage by the government.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#43

Post by buboard »

simion314 wrote: post #30
buboard wrote: post #17

I just hope the US does not "retaliate" on this. EU entrepreneurs are too dependent on US businesses.

How, they would also tax big companies "hidden" profits ? Some US citizens are asking for this already, the French tax is not target at a country.

They would tax digital companies doing businesses in the US.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#44

Post by dcolkitt »

bko wrote: post #15

I never understood the logic behind taxing large internet businesses. The idea behind taxes is that you use some public resource and you pay for that service. You own a home in a neighborhood, you pay property tax that funds the schools. You drive a car, you pay gasoline tax that funds the streets. You hire workers locally, you pay the tax to pay back all the contributions public institutions made to adding the skill…

> The other theories of taxation is that it should be used to raise revenue from the best means possible. I disagree with that framework but applying taxes arbitrarily hardly seems fair or the best way to raise revenue.

Economists have known for 100 years that land value taxes (LVT) are by far the most efficient way to raise taxes. After that consumption taxes are the next most efficient. Corporate taxes and taxes on investment income are one of the least efficient, most distortionary, forms of taxation.

Yet policymakers and voters show no sign of changing their opinions, despite how much economic evidence continues to pile up. LVTs are extremely unpopular, because home ownership is fetishized by the middle class as a vehicle for wealth accumulation. Even in progressive polities like California, there's always tremendous political will to keep residential property taxes artificially low.

VAT taxes are almost just as despised, especially in America. Meanwhile higher corporate and investment taxes are supported by large majorities. Despite the fact that they impose serious drags on productivity and growth. If your goals is having a more progressive tax code or increasing income equality, the much better strategy is to combine high LVT/VAT taxes with a UBI, rather than explicitly try to target poorly designed tax schemes at rich people.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#46

Post by sailingparrot »

alt_f4 wrote: post #18
99052882514569 wrote: post #3

Taxing digital companies based on digital presence certainly makes sense to me, as a layperson. A company that's selling ads to a French company that wants to show those ads to French users is doing business in France, end of story. Taxing only very large corporations - that's a little more questionable, but plenty of countries (including the US) treat small businesses preferentially, so it's not like it's unpreceden…

> company that's selling ads to a French company that wants to show those ads to French users is doing business in France, end of story. yeah, so taxes make sense to pay for the roads, bridges and healthcare that these ads are using.

Taxes in France (and in many other more [than the US] socialist countries) are not just about paying for the public infrastructure that you use. It's about contributing to the development of the society by taxing very lucrative businesses and individuals (and also taxing not so lucrative businesses sadly). If you are an individual in France, and you are well off, you will pay much more taxes than what the state pays in infrastructure for you, why do you think it should be different just for internet businesses?

You may not agree with that philosophy, in which case you can decide to stop doing business in France. Considering the amount of cash GAFAs make, I would wager they will continue doing business in France and pay that 3% tax rather than miss 65M wealthy customers.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#47

Post by buboard »

mac01021 wrote: post #33
buboard wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not google and FB pay the users directly?

Would I get paid per search when I use Google and per post when I use Facebook?

Many ways. Even a tax would do, as long as the tax collector gave it back to the users proportionally to the time spent on either site.

E.g. facebook could be forced to give you discounts for your card or sth.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#48

Post by Qwertystop »

dahfizz wrote: post #24
jbigelow76 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they should. FB doesn't want to get taxed? Create a non-tracking version and paywall it, I would actually pay for that myself.

You and maybe a dozen other people. Social media is worthless without widespread adoption.

It could potentially share the backend -- track only those people who are on the free version, but keep everyone on one network.

Also, no. Social media existed before the current big general-purpose networks. See Usenet, email lists, IRC, forums, etc. A single big network with no particular purpose or common interest provides different benefits, better in some ways and worse in others, but niche networks still have their own worth.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#50

Post by dfxm12 »

aey wrote: post #36
mywittyname wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxation/regulations can place an undue burden on smaller companies. So I think it's perfectly acceptable to use size as a component of taxation. It's like progressive taxation applied to business.

No matter how the law is written, if the result is that the exceptions only apply to French companies and not to the US, it’s bullshit :). They could pick arbitrary ways to bisect the set until they get the desired result.

That's not the case. Per the article:

About 30 companies will pay it - mostly US groups such as Alphabet, Apple, Facebook, Amazon and Microsoft. Chinese, German, Spanish and British firms are also affected, as well as the French online advertising firm Criteo.

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