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Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

nytimes.com

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Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#41

Post by rayiner »

agarden wrote: post #15
hedora wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On problem with saying “that red state asked for it; let them see how they like it when their kids are starving on the streets (since they will also vote against welfare)” is that the US counts votes in a way that means, as more people flee your conservative hell-hole to find work, the remaining people’s votes count more and more. Demographic projections say that the senate will be controlled by Make no mistake about…

You talk as if this were an unforeseen consequence of the way our legislature is set up. It is not. Giving the people who live in sparsely populated areas an equal voice with those who live in densely populated areas is the whole point of the Senate. It was designed to work this way and it is doing exactly what it was meant to do.

The point of the senate has nothing to do with giving people in sparsely populated areas the same vote. At the time, there wasn’t the same dichotomy created by people living in cities.

The purpose of giving every state two senators is so that the states, as distinct sovereign entities, each have the same representation in the senate. It doesn’t matter how many people live there.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#42

Post by bunnyrooroo »

mcguire wrote: post #13
pavel_lishin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people of Alaska asked for this Well, kind of. I know this is more of a meta-question about government and democracy, etc., but this was a unilateral action by one elected official: > Gov. Mike J. Dunleavy shocked the state last month by using a veto to cut much deeper, taking away $130 million more from the system that gave him his master’s degree.

Will he get re-elected?

He is just in his first year of office. 3 more years after this... yay!....

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#43

Post by magduf »

agarden wrote: post #15
hedora wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On problem with saying “that red state asked for it; let them see how they like it when their kids are starving on the streets (since they will also vote against welfare)” is that the US counts votes in a way that means, as more people flee your conservative hell-hole to find work, the remaining people’s votes count more and more. Demographic projections say that the senate will be controlled by Make no mistake about…

You talk as if this were an unforeseen consequence of the way our legislature is set up. It is not. Giving the people who live in sparsely populated areas an equal voice with those who live in densely populated areas is the whole point of the Senate. It was designed to work this way and it is doing exactly what it was meant to do.

>It was designed to work this way and it is doing exactly what it was meant to do.

This reminds me of the MCAS system on the 737MAX: the software there worked perfectly, and did exactly what it was designed to do as it flew those two planes straight into the ground with over 300 passengers.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#44

Post by bunnyrooroo »

analog31 wrote: post #26
ijpoijpoihpiuoh wrote: post #2

Perhaps this makes me a terrible person, but I sometimes half hope to see things like this go through. The people of Alaska asked for this, and it will be interesting to see if they like getting what they asked for. The main reason it's only "half-hope" rather than fully hoping is that the damage from this will still affect people who didn't vote in favor of it. Those kids at the university deserve a better education…

This would require more detailed analysis. Did the people really ask for it? Does the election system in Alaska result in a government with a connection to public sentiment? I live in a heavily gerrymandered state, so it's not even clear what it means to say that we have an elected government.

Huge state, less than a million people, 90% of the population is in 3 towns.

Alaska is nothing like the rest of the country, that should be clear.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#45

Post by roywiggins »

jupiter90000 wrote: post #29
hedora wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On problem with saying “that red state asked for it; let them see how they like it when their kids are starving on the streets (since they will also vote against welfare)” is that the US counts votes in a way that means, as more people flee your conservative hell-hole to find work, the remaining people’s votes count more and more. Demographic projections say that the senate will be controlled by Make no mistake about…

The ironic thing here is the presumedly Republican majority (of voters) voting for a guy promising what amounts to a monetary handout. But are typically vehemently opposed to government handouts?

Alaskan politics is weird and doesn't quite track with politics in the lower 48.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#46

Post by doctorpangloss »

bunnyrooroo wrote: post #31

Hello, I actually live in Alaska. I'm quite concerned about how the NY Times portrayed this. While I don't agree with all of the cuts to the University or the budget as a whole, the way this is being portrayed is interesting. If veto holds, and the cuts to the University take effect, Alaska will still spend 3 times as much per student than the average state. Yes, you heard that correct, Alaska will still contribute 3…

Another interpretation of your exact data is that this great amount of funding paid off, it educated you and attracted talented people to University of Alaska.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#47

Post by magduf »

velcrovan wrote: post #10
ijpoijpoihpiuoh wrote: post #2

Perhaps this makes me a terrible person, but I sometimes half hope to see things like this go through. The people of Alaska asked for this, and it will be interesting to see if they like getting what they asked for. The main reason it's only "half-hope" rather than fully hoping is that the damage from this will still affect people who didn't vote in favor of it. Those kids at the university deserve a better education…

Whether or not this is a good strategy depends on how much damage will be caused and whether the subject is likely to actually make the connection between their choice and the harm it caused. A parenting analogy may be in order. Once I stopped my then 2yr old from walking over some broken glass, to her loud objection. It would have been stupid to allow even such impermanent injuries as bloody cuts on her feet in orde…

The problem with your parenting analogy is that we live under democratic systems, where the voters get to choose how to run things (indirectly, by electing representatives). The voters are all adults. If they want to do something utterly stupid, who's supposed to step in and stop them? Any person doing so would be acting in an anti-democratic manner; usually we deride such systems of government as "authoritarian". So unless there's some benevolent aliens that you're counting on to step in and save us from ourselves, it comes down to democracy vs. authoritarianism: do we let the voters choose to shoot themselves in the foot, or do we give all the power to some person or elite cabal and let them do what they think is best?

I do agree that ruining your state university system is a bad move long-term, but if that's what the voters want, if you support democracy, you have to give it to them.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#49

Post by dragonwriter »

agarden wrote: post #15
hedora wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On problem with saying “that red state asked for it; let them see how they like it when their kids are starving on the streets (since they will also vote against welfare)” is that the US counts votes in a way that means, as more people flee your conservative hell-hole to find work, the remaining people’s votes count more and more. Demographic projections say that the senate will be controlled by Make no mistake about…

You talk as if this were an unforeseen consequence of the way our legislature is set up. It is not. Giving the people who live in sparsely populated areas an equal voice with those who live in densely populated areas is the whole point of the Senate. It was designed to work this way and it is doing exactly what it was meant to do.

> You talk as if this were an unforeseen consequence of the way our legislature is set up. It is not.

It kind of is; the real purpose was to give places that disenfranchised large number of residents who weren't untaxed Indians (that is, slave states) additional voting power in the Senate, House, and Electoral College. Creating a reward for policies so bad they encourage voting citizens to emigrate, while in line with the generally perverse design, was not really the focus.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#50

Post by magduf »

mikeyouse wrote: post #12
ijpoijpoihpiuoh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you vote for a budget hawk, he wins, and then he does budget hawk things, in my book, that's getting what you asked for. It's true that you don't get to choose the exact shape of what you are getting, but you do get to choose the general direction. The people know or should know that, and vote accordingly. It would be different if, for example, they voted for a tax and spend Democrat and then, when elected, that o…

145,000 people voted for this governor, 125,000 people voted for his opponent. Now all of those people are going to be impacted by these huge cuts to the university system. "They voted for this" ignores that many people voted against it and will be harmed nonetheless.

Sorry, but that's how democracy works. Do you have any suggestions for a political system that somehow lets a minority of voters get the executive they want while the majority simultaneously gets the executive they want? It just isn't feasible to have different executives, with different agendas and budgetary goals, running the same region. Maybe if the two groups of people want to move to separate sides of the state and split the state, they could be happy, but that's not realistic; most likely the two different groups of voters are all living among each other.
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