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Exploring alternative funding models for the web

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#41

Post by JumpCrisscross »

lwb wrote: post #32
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is kinda what the Basic Attention Token is in the Brave browser The difference is in OP’s proposal one gets money. Brave sends people its token things.

You can redeem them for like, 30 cents, so that's something https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/basic-attention-token/

> You can redeem them for like, 30 cents, so that's something

At costs fixed (e.g. setting up cryptocurrency trading privileges, going through KYC, clearing receiving cryptocurrency proceeds with your bank) and variable (e.g. regulatory, accounting, tax wise, et cetera). To say nothing of volatile, uncertain and likely to get stolen.

This is an example of a good idea ruined by shoving cryptocurrencies where they only add marketing value.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#42

Post by packet_nerd »

jerrac wrote: post #4

For a long time I've thought that we need a browser based universal tip jar. Some way that lets me read a blog post, and then tip the site with however much I want. 1 cent, 25 cents, 1 dollar, 200 dollars, any amount. From my understanding of things, the biggest thing in the way is that processing payments costs money. The second thing is making sure the money goes where it is supposed to. With services like Scroll,…

> browser based universal tip jar

I like this idea, and would use it myself. I understand the Brave browser does this, essentially, and have been meaning to check it out.

I wonder if a "tip" would be a better system for verifying a real human than Google's captcha (which really goes nuts if you've taken steps to protect your privacy)?

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#43

Post by jerrac »

jerrac wrote: post #4

For a long time I've thought that we need a browser based universal tip jar. Some way that lets me read a blog post, and then tip the site with however much I want. 1 cent, 25 cents, 1 dollar, 200 dollars, any amount. From my understanding of things, the biggest thing in the way is that processing payments costs money. The second thing is making sure the money goes where it is supposed to. With services like Scroll,…

So, to address some of the comments referencing Brave, Flattr, and other similar sites, as far as I know, those are all for profit entities. My idea would be a non-profit.

Initially they'd need to be bank rolled by someone, but I'd think that if they gained enough traction, operating costs could come out interest gains. Or just donations directly to the org.

I'd also hope that any unclaimed tips would be kept for something like 50 years. They'd just be generating interest for use by the non-profit.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#44

Post by giaour »

jerrac wrote: post #4

For a long time I've thought that we need a browser based universal tip jar. Some way that lets me read a blog post, and then tip the site with however much I want. 1 cent, 25 cents, 1 dollar, 200 dollars, any amount. From my understanding of things, the biggest thing in the way is that processing payments costs money. The second thing is making sure the money goes where it is supposed to. With services like Scroll,…

Didn't Google try to do this a few years ago? IIRC, they had a service where you could put in a set amount of money a month, and Google would essentially use it to buy the ad slots on pages you visited. Bit of a conflict of interest since Google was also selling the ad slots at non-fixed costs, but it was a nice idea.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#45

Post by dyarosla »

giaour wrote: post #44
jerrac wrote: post #4

For a long time I've thought that we need a browser based universal tip jar. Some way that lets me read a blog post, and then tip the site with however much I want. 1 cent, 25 cents, 1 dollar, 200 dollars, any amount. From my understanding of things, the biggest thing in the way is that processing payments costs money. The second thing is making sure the money goes where it is supposed to. With services like Scroll,…

Didn't Google try to do this a few years ago? IIRC, they had a service where you could put in a set amount of money a month, and Google would essentially use it to buy the ad slots on pages you visited. Bit of a conflict of interest since Google was also selling the ad slots at non-fixed costs, but it was a nice idea.

So... like... not the same thing at all?

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#46

Post by jboynyc »

hiccuphippo wrote: post #17
jerrac wrote: post #4

For a long time I've thought that we need a browser based universal tip jar. Some way that lets me read a blog post, and then tip the site with however much I want. 1 cent, 25 cents, 1 dollar, 200 dollars, any amount. From my understanding of things, the biggest thing in the way is that processing payments costs money. The second thing is making sure the money goes where it is supposed to. With services like Scroll,…

What happens with the tips sent to a website that doesn't register with Mozilla? Maybe there should be a standard meta tag that websites can add to show they are looking for tips. And then they can even add a URL on the tag so they can use another provider if for some reason they don't want Mozilla to be the gatekeeper of their tip jar. But then again, they can just add the link in the website itself like they alread…

Beaker Browser has (a version of) this feature -- you can specify a donate link for your dat site, and the browser then displays a heart button that takes you to that page.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#47

Post by packet_nerd »

rolltiide wrote: post #20
gwbas1c wrote: post #16

Honestly, I just want a subscription model like Netflix or Google Music: A nominal monthly fee for ad-free access to most content on most major websites.

Paid by the ISP which I already pay for

No, wrong incentive structure for ISPs. They're job is to deliver packets from point A to point B, and I want to pay them to do that well, and ditch them if they don't.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#48

Post by mantenpanther »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41
lwb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can redeem them for like, 30 cents, so that's something https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/basic-attention-token/

> You can redeem them for like, 30 cents, so that's something At costs fixed ( e.g. setting up cryptocurrency trading privileges, going through KYC, clearing receiving cryptocurrency proceeds with your bank) and variable ( e.g. regulatory, accounting, tax wise, et cetera ). To say nothing of volatile, uncertain and likely to get stolen. This is an example of a good idea ruined by shoving cryptocurrencies where they o…

None of the things you mentioned are a real issue if you do a little homework.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#49

Post by giaour »

dyarosla wrote: post #45
giaour wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't Google try to do this a few years ago? IIRC, they had a service where you could put in a set amount of money a month, and Google would essentially use it to buy the ad slots on pages you visited. Bit of a conflict of interest since Google was also selling the ad slots at non-fixed costs, but it was a nice idea.

So... like... not the same thing at all?

Completely different execution, same motivation and (desired) end result.

Re: Exploring alternative funding models for the web

#50

Post by danShumway »

jerrac wrote: post #4

For a long time I've thought that we need a browser based universal tip jar. Some way that lets me read a blog post, and then tip the site with however much I want. 1 cent, 25 cents, 1 dollar, 200 dollars, any amount. From my understanding of things, the biggest thing in the way is that processing payments costs money. The second thing is making sure the money goes where it is supposed to. With services like Scroll,…

> From my understanding of things, the biggest thing in the way is that processing payments costs money.

This is one of the largest problems (if not the largest problem) on the web that I've been thinking about recently. Services like Venmo aren't designed for commercial use. Paypal is a privacy nightmare, and it's bad for sellers too because their chargeback policy is a mess -- and that's even ignoring the fees. Bank transfers are insecure and cumbersome (and again, often come with fees).

Bitcoin doesn't solve the problem for a metric ton of different reasons -- it's proponents are too concerned with worrying about inflation and investments and alternate currencies then with actually practical questions like, "can the payment reliably be completed in less than 1 minute", and "does it have fees associated with that kind of speed?".

It's a very complicated situation, and I have no idea what the answers are or where to even start looking for the answers, but I'm increasingly frustrated by online payment systems, both as a consumer and as someone looking to accept payments. They're almost universally bad.

I think this might be one of the big reasons why advertising works so well -- it's not that advertising is efficient, or that fraud isn't a problem, or that consumers like it. But advertising is an easy way to have a micropayment of as low as a cent or two linked to a page view. And as far as I can see, there is no alternative to that.

In the absence of a way to do actual micropayments, paid subscriptions on the web are also far more costly than ads are. Your average website doesn't get 25 cents every time you load a page. But you have to scale everything up, because otherwise all of your gains just get eaten by fees.

I'm convinced our lack of a decent payment system is seriously holding the web back.

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