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A Gas Heist Gone Wrong

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Re: A Gas Heist Gone Wrong

#41

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

licebmi__at__ wrote: post #35
gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #13

Worth remembering Mexico nationalized gas, leading to gas shortages, rationing - and higher prices.

Worth debunking that, as: a) Mexico nationalized gas on 1938. b) Fuel shortage and price hike actually started on 2016 when the previous right wing government deregulated the gas price, and allowed other companies to sell fuel in a free market scheme. Panic sales as everyone was expecting a price hike were the cause of fuel shortages across 2016 and 2017. While the current government has currently halted the privatiz…

It's hard for me to see PEMEX as a noble venture when price controls on gas largely act as a subsidy for the richest in Mexican society. I would blame less on "right wing deregulation" and more on a system that is rotten to the core and failing at such a basic service like providing fuel.

Re: A Gas Heist Gone Wrong

#43

Post by dsfyu404ed »

stickfigure wrote: post #29
lifeeeeee wrote: post #2

There was an article recently about how the drug cartels in Mexico pivoted into stealing gas. Much easier and less risky than drug trafficking. This is why ending the war on drugs in US will not improve the Mexico violence problem much.

Nonsense. It's orders of magnitude easier to protect a pipeline than to stop millions of people from engaging in secret commerce. You could secure that infrastructure with a mere tiny sliver of the tens of billions of dollars spent annually to fight the drug war.

Agreed. Cartels aren't run by idiots. There's a reason they didn't pivot years ago and it's not because stealing fuel was too easy/lucrative.

Re: A Gas Heist Gone Wrong

#44

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

miguelmota wrote: post #11

A great podcast episode on this is Planet Money's 'Mexico Fights The Fuel Pirates'; they explain how it all led up to this https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/03/08/701613540/epis...

Wow... that was a lot better than your average Planet Money segment.

Re: A Gas Heist Gone Wrong

#46

Post by Causality1 »

mcguire wrote: post #38
Causality1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a broken line, it was a botched tap job. I don't see a lot of moral difference between an organized heist and an impromptu opportunistic criminal mob, except that the former has the decency to not get children involved.

" The scene in the green alfalfa field abutting the pipeline appeared to be a free-for-all, roughly 80 villagers swarming a leak inside a 100-foot-long, 5-foot-deep irrigation trench that bisected the field. There seemed to be no organization, no tap, no hose—only two holes in the pipe, which made the fuel spurt as if from a wonky fountain. It seemed possible a local huachicol gang had screwed up the extraction, but…

The article seemed very sympathetic to the people killed and injured to me, giving multiple accounts from their perspective and that of their families, etc. But this is the equivalent, at best, of a crowd descending on a crashed Brinks truck to snatch up spilled cash and then having the armored car's fuel tank explode on them. They subjected themselves to extraordinary danger to take what didn't belong to them and paid the price for it. I'd consider the moral ledger to be balanced.

Re: A Gas Heist Gone Wrong

#47

Post by crooked-v »

hirundo wrote: post #31

This is primarily about the poverty of the victims. Most of the adults must have known about the extreme danger of being close to gasoline fumes. If we can't blame their innocence, what's left besides an overwhelming need for the gas or the profit from it? Maybe the answer is herd following behavior. A few oblivious people go into the danger zone, and the less oblivious think maybe they know a reason why it isn't dan…

"The profit from it" is underselling the effects of extreme poverty.

> Many of the survivors say they’re among the 43% of Mexicans living below the poverty line—about $1,940 a year in the city, $1,260 in the country—and can’t afford to ignore free money.

Re: A Gas Heist Gone Wrong

#48

Post by GhostVII »

Causality1 wrote: post #46
mcguire wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" The scene in the green alfalfa field abutting the pipeline appeared to be a free-for-all, roughly 80 villagers swarming a leak inside a 100-foot-long, 5-foot-deep irrigation trench that bisected the field. There seemed to be no organization, no tap, no hose—only two holes in the pipe, which made the fuel spurt as if from a wonky fountain. It seemed possible a local huachicol gang had screwed up the extraction, but…

The article seemed very sympathetic to the people killed and injured to me, giving multiple accounts from their perspective and that of their families, etc. But this is the equivalent, at best, of a crowd descending on a crashed Brinks truck to snatch up spilled cash and then having the armored car's fuel tank explode on them. They subjected themselves to extraordinary danger to take what didn't belong to them and pa…

Except the gas that was spilling out of the pipe was never going to be recovered and used for anything else - nothing of value was being stolen. For people in extreme poverty, the money they gain from gas could significantly affect their lives, I don't blame them for trying to take it.

Re: A Gas Heist Gone Wrong

#49

Post by abricot »

mcguire wrote: post #39
parliament32 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think a broken pipeline is the case -- unlike our pipelines, these ones are buried several feet underground. Pipelines don't just unearth themselves: someone deliberately dug out and punctured it, in an attempt to steal gas.

Ever seen those "Dial before you dig" signs?

The article obviously doesn't provide everything we need to know to conclude that it was an act of crime, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible to know.

A small bit of information about what's growing on the field (alfalfa), the date it happened and what farm equipment are generally used at the time would make it pretty easy to conclude.

So just because you're not convinced doesn't mean they aren't right.

Re: A Gas Heist Gone Wrong

#50

Post by Causality1 »

GhostVII wrote: post #48
Causality1 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article seemed very sympathetic to the people killed and injured to me, giving multiple accounts from their perspective and that of their families, etc. But this is the equivalent, at best, of a crowd descending on a crashed Brinks truck to snatch up spilled cash and then having the armored car's fuel tank explode on them. They subjected themselves to extraordinary danger to take what didn't belong to them and pa…

Except the gas that was spilling out of the pipe was never going to be recovered and used for anything else - nothing of value was being stolen. For people in extreme poverty, the money they gain from gas could significantly affect their lives, I don't blame them for trying to take it.

Oh I don't blame them for trying either. I do blame them for bringing children and getting them killed.
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