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Walmart Pleads Guilty After a Decade of Bribes

nytimes.com

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Re: Walmart Pleads Guilty After a Decade of Bribes

#41

Post by [deleted] »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #14
ebg13 wrote: post #10

> Walmart was able to negotiate a lower fine after President Trump, who had previously criticized the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, took office. Can anyone explain a reason why someone who isn't a cad might not agree with the FCPA (ie. for reasons that aren't "money good, ethics bad")? This isn't a dig at Trump. I just don't understand the law well enough to know how angry I should be.

I will just play devil's advocate. Sometimes different cultures have very different ideas about what is an ethical way of doing things. If you're passing judgement on Walmart here, I think you're also passing judgement on Brazilian culture. Of course, you're welcome to do so, and I might even agree with you. But if you want to fine Walmart for doing things the "Brazilian way" while operating in Brazil, then I think i…

[deleted]

Re: Walmart Pleads Guilty After a Decade of Bribes

#43

Post by the_watcher »

mullingitover wrote: post #32
ummonk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory it could unfairly handicap American companies relative to foreign companies. This doesn’t seem to have happened much in practice though so I support the FCPA. Corruption is a big scourge in many countries and it is a really good thing American money is prohibited from exacerbating the issue.

> In theory it could unfairly handicap American companies relative to foreign companies. Seems like it would be sensible for the US to push the rest of the world to adopt the same law. We're able to push other countries to adopt our war on drugs laws, why not war on corruption?

Many countries do have laws against corruption, but it's so institutionalized that the laws are functionally toothless.

Re: Walmart Pleads Guilty After a Decade of Bribes

#44

Post by Gibbon1 »

geofft wrote: post #26
eindiran wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Wikipedia page: "Although the decision does not address "corporate personhood," a long-established judicial and constitutional concept, much attention has focused on that issue."[0] "How should one interpret [the case] then?" Recognize that Citizen's United is _not_ about corporate personhood, and actually read what the case was about. The number of times I've heard people making snarky remarks about Citizen…

That's all well and good, but 'frequentnapper did not actually say anything about Citizens United in the first place. If corporations are people, we should jail them. If corporations aren't people, why do they have legal rights independent of the individual, jailable people who constitute them?

Seriously corporations have the right to pay fines with other peoples money instead of being jailed or executed. People of flesh and blood don't have those rights.

Compare Walmart committing bribery to me attempting to bribe my way out of speeding ticket.

Re: Walmart Pleads Guilty After a Decade of Bribes

#45

Post by droithomme »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #14
ebg13 wrote: post #10

> Walmart was able to negotiate a lower fine after President Trump, who had previously criticized the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, took office. Can anyone explain a reason why someone who isn't a cad might not agree with the FCPA (ie. for reasons that aren't "money good, ethics bad")? This isn't a dig at Trump. I just don't understand the law well enough to know how angry I should be.

I will just play devil's advocate. Sometimes different cultures have very different ideas about what is an ethical way of doing things. If you're passing judgement on Walmart here, I think you're also passing judgement on Brazilian culture. Of course, you're welcome to do so, and I might even agree with you. But if you want to fine Walmart for doing things the "Brazilian way" while operating in Brazil, then I think i…

>you've got a very, very long list of other countries you need to be prepared to harass.

Starting perhaps with US briber- cough cough - campaign financing practices.

Re: Walmart Pleads Guilty After a Decade of Bribes

#46

Post by chrstphrhrt »

tr3ndyBEAR wrote: post #29
khazhou wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations aren't people. You're misrepresenting Citizens United

Citizen's United is not the only case relevant to the idea of corporate personhood. There's a whole history of corporations earning rights usually reserved for people. You can read the wikipedia page for "corporate personhood" if you want to learn more about the history of it and specific cases and rights afforded to corporations.

Since I just read about this in a course, the main reference (at least for Canada/UK/Commonwealth) is the Salomon case from 1895: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salomon_v_A_Salomon_%26_Co_Ltd

So, not new.

I think people overreact to hearing that corporations are (legal) "persons" when in fact they are not anything like natural persons (no body, no constitutional rights). As I understand it, directors and officers are the ones held personally liable in criminal matters, but corporations can still be liable for negligence and breach of contract etc. IANAL.

Sounds like it is different in the US. Does citizens united somehow make corporations more like people?

Re: Walmart Pleads Guilty After a Decade of Bribes

#47

Post by clairity »

nerdponx wrote: post #25
frequentnapper wrote: post #8

Just a fine of ~280 mil, no jail time for any responsible. If corporations are people, why can't we jail walmart?

I wouldn't want to jail Walmart. That doesn't benefit anyone, it's just punitive. Jail the executives responsible under the usual criminal law.

so maybe sanction walmart to sell everything for a 20% discount for a month so that the benefits of punitive action accrue to its customers?

Re: Walmart Pleads Guilty After a Decade of Bribes

#48

Post by Consultant32452 »

droithomme wrote: post #45
Consultant32452 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will just play devil's advocate. Sometimes different cultures have very different ideas about what is an ethical way of doing things. If you're passing judgement on Walmart here, I think you're also passing judgement on Brazilian culture. Of course, you're welcome to do so, and I might even agree with you. But if you want to fine Walmart for doing things the "Brazilian way" while operating in Brazil, then I think i…

>you've got a very, very long list of other countries you need to be prepared to harass. Starting perhaps with US briber- cough cough - campaign financing practices.

Yes, imagine Japan fining Honda for its US component participating in lobbying "the American way." To me, it seems ridiculous.

Re: Walmart Pleads Guilty After a Decade of Bribes

#49

Post by chrisfinne »

fallingfrog wrote: post #24

“Culture is the foundation of everything we do at Walmart. We define culture as our values in action.. Service to the customer Respect for the individual Strive for excellence Act with integrity” -Wal Mart’s horseshit values statement, the same as the value statement of every other corporation. Why does every company bother doing this again?

"Money before people," that's the company motto. Engraved on the lobby floor. It just looks more heroic in Latin.

-- Veronica Palmer in TV series 'Better off Ted'

Re: Walmart Pleads Guilty After a Decade of Bribes

#50

Post by will_brown »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #44
geofft wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all well and good, but 'frequentnapper did not actually say anything about Citizens United in the first place. If corporations are people, we should jail them. If corporations aren't people, why do they have legal rights independent of the individual, jailable people who constitute them?

Seriously corporations have the right to pay fines with other peoples money instead of being jailed or executed. People of flesh and blood don't have those rights. Compare Walmart committing bribery to me attempting to bribe my way out of speeding ticket.

>Compare Walmart committing bribery to me attempting to bribe my way out of speeding ticket.

But that is how the ticket industry works...you get the ticket, hire a lawyer, the lawyer “negotiates” a deal to plead no contest in exchange for no points and a lower $ penalty or at your option take traffic school ( a local private company that no doubt “bribes” its way in to those chushy exclusive county government contracts) and the court will dismiss your ticket like it never happened.

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