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Scooter Madness

nytimes.com

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Re: Scooter Madness

#41

Post by milkytron »

onemoresoop wrote: post #25
randyrand wrote: post #4

It's an easy fix - just add bike lanes and bike/scooter racks. The benefits of scooters are many: a single lane can accommodate many more scooters than cars. less emissions. faster than public for 1-3 miles. It's worth accommodating scooters.

Do you think it's a good idea to mix bicycles and scooters?

I ride my bike to work, and generally I don't have any issues with scooterers as long as they follow the same rules bikers do. The less experienced ones will always be a problem, as well as intoxicated riders, but that's true for any mode of transit. Safety should come first.

Are there any reasons it might not be a good idea for the two to use the same paths/roadways? Or better alternatives that are currently available?

Re: Scooter Madness

#42

Post by randyrand »

darkstar999 wrote: post #26
randyrand wrote: post #4

It's an easy fix - just add bike lanes and bike/scooter racks. The benefits of scooters are many: a single lane can accommodate many more scooters than cars. less emissions. faster than public for 1-3 miles. It's worth accommodating scooters.

> less emissions Are you sure? Accounting for the fact that drivers pick them up with a car, drive them home, charge them, and then drive them again to a new location? And the fact that they can have as little as a 6 month life because of wear and tear?

Than a taxi? Definitely. A taxi also has to drive to pick you up and drive around to wait for more passenger.

Than public? it's a tossup.

As for linespan, the first scooter rollout used consumer grade scooters. Commercial scooters are just rolling out: https://www.bird.co/zero/

Re: Scooter Madness

#43

Post by Hippocrates »

Show me the statistics on fatalities per capita per mile traveled on scooters, vs in cars and I'll start taking the anecdotes a little more seriously. (I think I know how those stats will look). I don't for one second believe that this outrage is about the safety of others. It's about people feeling uncomfortable and inconvenienced by something new and strange to them.

Scooters are very progressive for cities. I'm excited for anything that is quiet, efficient, and possibly takes cars off the road. Their popularity speaks for itself, but the nimbyism around them really is insufferable. People want to ban anything new that they don't themselves benefit from (gasp).

It's really gross that people think that they and their preferred mode of transport own the place. We need to learn to co-exist and be flexible about our shared spaces while the cities evolve (at a slower pace) to support us and technology better. Just be as respectful as possible and don't try to scare the bejeezus out of the grannies in the meantime.

Re: Scooter Madness

#44

Post by onemoresoop »

milkytron wrote: post #41
onemoresoop wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it's a good idea to mix bicycles and scooters?

I ride my bike to work, and generally I don't have any issues with scooterers as long as they follow the same rules bikers do. The less experienced ones will always be a problem, as well as intoxicated riders, but that's true for any mode of transit. Safety should come first. Are there any reasons it might not be a good idea for the two to use the same paths/roadways? Or better alternatives that are currently availab…

Better alternatives for now, Im not sure to be honest. I just feel it is much easier or more tempting to go fast on a scooter. Since one doesn’t have to pedal and put in physical effort, it is tempting to always go fast (or faster) as opposed to naturally go with the flow. And it doesn’t help that electric scooters drain by distance when speed is variable or the difference is insignificant. Why would one wait behind a cyclist when they can quickly accelerate and pass. At least some would be tempted. This creates some kind of traffic mismatch and more collisions are likely, I think. Im sure some rules and common sense would eventually ensue. Learning from mistakes. Or maybe a top speed could level the traffic off. Or maybe even some sort of light “licence”. I hear that in Germany one is required for cyclists and thats a good way to ensure some responsibility or better aquitance with the rules.

Maybe I’m wrong. I am not certain of anything but electric scooters seem to me like a good and clean way of transportation. I feel that I’d like to see fewer cars as well. I imagine cleaner air, etc. We’d be all better off with all kinds of development in light and efficient transportation. We seem to be stuck with large and energy inneficient stuck in the past transportation. Seems inevitable a change will come along.

Re: Scooter Madness

#45

Post by novok »

e40 wrote: post #12

And just last Friday in my walk home, two young gentlemen on scooters on the sidewalk, riding in the direction I was walking, passed by me at 20 mph, on my left, just as I was stepping left around something in my path and I came very close to being hit. Had I stepped a second earlier I could have been severely injured, even killed. I've been walking to/from work for 23 years, and I've never felt less safe on the side…

Scooters are limited to 15mph typically.

Re: Scooter Madness

#46

Post by novok »

onemoresoop wrote: post #44
milkytron wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ride my bike to work, and generally I don't have any issues with scooterers as long as they follow the same rules bikers do. The less experienced ones will always be a problem, as well as intoxicated riders, but that's true for any mode of transit. Safety should come first. Are there any reasons it might not be a good idea for the two to use the same paths/roadways? Or better alternatives that are currently availab…

Better alternatives for now, Im not sure to be honest. I just feel it is much easier or more tempting to go fast on a scooter. Since one doesn’t have to pedal and put in physical effort, it is tempting to always go fast (or faster) as opposed to naturally go with the flow. And it doesn’t help that electric scooters drain by distance when speed is variable or the difference is insignificant. Why would one wait behind…

Rental scooters are speed limited to about 15mph, the speed of a fast-ish bicyclist, and they don't go up hills very well. So it's the same dynamic as fast and slow cyclists today in the bike lane.

Re: Scooter Madness

#47

Post by gamblor956 »

esoterica wrote: post #39
gamblor956 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being gaslighted by the scooter industry so hard you think that cars are the problem here, not the scooter rider that made an illegal turn in front of an SUV which tried but failed to break in time to avoid hitting him. https://www.wsmv.com/news/bird-responds-after-scooter-rider-... https://www.chattanoogan.com/2019/5/20/390590/Brady-Gaulke-D... All of the problems with scooters are artifacts of a startup cul…

SUVs are more dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists (and scooter riders) than sedans. If you are using a tool that endangers everyone around you then you bear partial responsibility for increasing the latent risk of transportation even if you’re not the proximate cause of a given accident.

True, but in this case the scooter rider would have died whatever vehicle hit him--truck, SUV, sedan, or motorcycle.

Re: Scooter Madness

#48

Post by gamblor956 »

mikestew wrote: post #34
gamblor956 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being gaslighted by the scooter industry so hard you think that cars are the problem here, not the scooter rider that made an illegal turn in front of an SUV which tried but failed to break in time to avoid hitting him. https://www.wsmv.com/news/bird-responds-after-scooter-rider-... https://www.chattanoogan.com/2019/5/20/390590/Brady-Gaulke-D... All of the problems with scooters are artifacts of a startup cul…

Cars obviously are the problem here. Had the SUV driver been riding a motorcycle, there is a high probability the scooter rider would be alive. But instead of saying to car drivers, "you are operating the least-forgiving vehicle, therefore you will bear the most burden of responsibility", we say, "ran over a bike because your were texting? Here's a $120 ticket, pay more attention next time."

SUVs generally are more dangerous to the other parties in a collision.

But in this case the scooter rider suffered fatal head injuries because he wasn't wearing a helmet. He would have still suffered fatal head injuries no matter what vehicle hit him since it wasn't the size of the vehicle that mattered here; what mattered was that he fell off his scooter and hit his head.

Re: Scooter Madness

#49

Post by gamblor956 »

RhodesianHunter wrote: post #31
gamblor956 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being gaslighted by the scooter industry so hard you think that cars are the problem here, not the scooter rider that made an illegal turn in front of an SUV which tried but failed to break in time to avoid hitting him. https://www.wsmv.com/news/bird-responds-after-scooter-rider-... https://www.chattanoogan.com/2019/5/20/390590/Brady-Gaulke-D... All of the problems with scooters are artifacts of a startup cul…

Where do you draw the line between individual responsibility and what businesses should shoulder as far as above and beyond safety measures? I don't necessarily have an answer, but saying scooter companies are responsible for someone's death in the same comment as you mention an illegal uturn seems contradictory to me.

That second part was a separate paragraph because it was a separate response to a different part of the comment I was responding to. It wasn't directly related to my comments on the responsibility of the scooter rider.
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