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Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

medicalxpress.com

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Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#41

Post by strainer »

gbrown wrote: post #38
strainer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm questioning the idea that this particular biomarker - doesn't actually mark what the report claims it marks (mitochondrial bio-genesis). How do we often test for diabetes.. cancers.. many many clinical conditions? Biomarkers . So they are not practically unreliable in general. What do you know about the particular biomarker employed in the study to say that it is unreliable ?

1. Each biomarker has to be validated independently. 2. There's a huge difference between something used for testing, and something used for intervention. Grey hair is a pretty OK test for aging, but clearly dying it isn't going to arrest the aging process. Long term degenerative conditions are some of the most difficult problems for such validation, due to time, cost, and the complexity of risk in real populations.…

Be as skeptical as you wish, but that is all very orthogonal to my requests to substantiate claims here that the biomarker examined is unreliably interpreted. They have not been substantiated. Discussion of what qualifies as "anti-aging" is another matter . Anti-aging is not a clinical term, there have been no claims made about general reversal of aging.

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#43

Post by ry_ry »

dractori wrote: post #37

Is there a way to tell who funded this study?

Nestlé signed a deal with them at the beginning of April, according to TheKingOfBelAir's comment above, which would lead me to believe they were at least involved with the study.

Link here, to save searching. http://pdf.amazentis.com/pdf/Nestl%C3%A9_Health_Science_&_Am...

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#44

Post by will_brown »

amluto wrote: post #27
strainer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What particular anti-aging effects do you regard? Are not improvements in mitochondrial health practical indicators of anti-aging as improvements in skin elasticity or bone strength?

Skin elasticity is directly useful. Stronger bones are probably less likely to break, although this isn’t quite a given. Improved mitochondria are improved mitochondria and are not at all guaranteed to be beneficial.

Improved mitochondria function means improved energy conversion (in other words greater ATP with less calories)...that seems pretty useful all by itself.

Improving ATP efficiency is huge... i agree with you it may not mean stronger bones and more elastic skin...but we do know aging (less elastic skin and weaker bones) is related to the bodies breakdown in ATP supply/demand/conversion.

I just don’t think you can gloss over mitochondria inprovement as no benefit...it’s literally an improvement in energy (more energy with less calories), it’s a benefit unto itself.

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#45

Post by dannykwells »

will_brown wrote: post #44
amluto wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skin elasticity is directly useful. Stronger bones are probably less likely to break, although this isn’t quite a given. Improved mitochondria are improved mitochondria and are not at all guaranteed to be beneficial.

Improved mitochondria function means improved energy conversion (in other words greater ATP with less calories)...that seems pretty useful all by itself. Improving ATP efficiency is huge... i agree with you it may not mean stronger bones and more elastic skin...but we do know aging (less elastic skin and weaker bones) is related to the bodies breakdown in ATP supply/demand/conversion. I just don’t think you can gloss…

No, you are extrapolating that based off your understanding. Improved mitochondria might...mean nothing.

In cancer, we see all the time the ability to get a cell we know is important into a tumor does not, necessarily, associate with clinical benefit. The same goes here. The ability to improve one small piece of biology does not mean, necessarily, that you will see a larger, emergent effect. Biology is much more complicated than that.

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#46

Post by clairity »

orbifold wrote: post #26

There was a pretty nice portrait in the California Sunday magazine of a billionaire (Resnick) couple who owns a lot of land and water and are producing different kinds of citrus fruits and nuts in the south of California: https://story.californiasunday.com/resnick-a-kingdom-from-du... . Lynda Resnick has been heavily promoting pomegranate juice. Of course they have a lot to gain, because they are one of the leading b…

she's the first person i thought of when i read the title of this story (i saw her speak once).

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#47

Post by gpm »

strainer wrote: post #32
gpm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Wikipedia link someone else posted it looks like 100g of pomegranate is approximately 250mg, so 200g pomegranates a day to get to the point where they saw any (non clinical still) effects.

Your statement reads as though the research tested lower doses and 500mg was the lowest which "saw any effects". Is this accurate?

Yes, specifically 250mg saw none (or at least no statistically significant ones).

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#48

Post by amluto »

will_brown wrote: post #44
amluto wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skin elasticity is directly useful. Stronger bones are probably less likely to break, although this isn’t quite a given. Improved mitochondria are improved mitochondria and are not at all guaranteed to be beneficial.

Improved mitochondria function means improved energy conversion (in other words greater ATP with less calories)...that seems pretty useful all by itself. Improving ATP efficiency is huge... i agree with you it may not mean stronger bones and more elastic skin...but we do know aging (less elastic skin and weaker bones) is related to the bodies breakdown in ATP supply/demand/conversion. I just don’t think you can gloss…

> it’s literally an improvement in energy (more energy with less calories), it’s a benefit unto itself.

It's entirely plausible that, in the modern world, this is actually a negative.

Also, for all anyone knows, just "improving" mitochondria might also hurt due to increased production of free radicals and other strongly oxidizing species by those improved mitochondria.

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#49

Post by utopcell »

arkades wrote: post #22
utopcell wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do all "we have identified a dose range that doesn’t immediately sicken people” studies make it to Nature journals ?

Nature is a high impact factor, prestigious journal. It’s million sub-journals, like Nature Metabolism ... well, vary. A lot. They mostly coast on papa’s brand recognition. Nature Endocrinology Reviews is a relatively ranking journal in endocrinology - roughly second place, by impact factor. This didn’t get published there. Nature Metabolism was only opened in 2017, as an online-only journal. It doesn’t even rank in…

Thank you for the thorough explanation.

Re: Pomegranate compound with anti-aging effects passes human trial

#50

Post by strainer »

gpm wrote: post #47
strainer wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement reads as though the research tested lower doses and 500mg was the lowest which "saw any effects". Is this accurate?

Yes, specifically 250mg saw none (or at least no statistically significant ones).

Thanks, I hadn't time to check.
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