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The avocado is an evolutionary anachronism

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: The avocado is an evolutionary anachronism

#41

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

dehrmann wrote: post #22
pugworthy wrote: post #14

Here's a way to view evolutionary theory: a plant that is extremely tasty becomes cultivated, and protected by the species that eats it. As a result, the plant prospers. This actually has a name - Mutualism. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(biology) for example.

I've heard cattle described like this. Cattle struck a bargain with humans where we spread them everywhere, protect them, and give them ample grazing room in exchange for their slaughter.

If cattle could speak, I wonder if they would appreciate this perspective of the situation. Personally I doubt it, which makes calling it "mutualism" a euphemism.

Re: The avocado is an evolutionary anachronism

#42

Post by dsfyu404ed »

fouc wrote: post #26
dehrmann wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen squirrels carry them to eat later (it's a ridiculous sight), but humans imported both the squirrels and avocados here (the Bay Area).

An invasive species carrying an invasive species.

Observed by an invasive species.

Re: The avocado is an evolutionary anachronism

#43

Post by afiori »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #41
dehrmann wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard cattle described like this. Cattle struck a bargain with humans where we spread them everywhere, protect them, and give them ample grazing room in exchange for their slaughter.

If cattle could speak, I wonder if they would appreciate this perspective of the situation. Personally I doubt it, which makes calling it "mutualism" a euphemism.

If treated well I think they would appreciate it until suddenly they would stop appreciating it.

From an evolutionary point of view is definitely a (perverted) mutualism (perverted as in the artificial selection on cows make them quite unfit to human-free life).

On the appreciation side it would be relevant to know more about how cows see humans. I believe many cows in farms are quite happy and many (more) cows are quite miserable.

> Personally I doubt it, which makes calling it "mutualism" a euphemism.

Overall if we assume cows do not have a cultural understanding of "humans are going to kill us" this would look more like a projection of our society on them.

Re: The avocado is an evolutionary anachronism

#44

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

afiori wrote: post #43
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If cattle could speak, I wonder if they would appreciate this perspective of the situation. Personally I doubt it, which makes calling it "mutualism" a euphemism.

If treated well I think they would appreciate it until suddenly they would stop appreciating it. From an evolutionary point of view is definitely a (perverted) mutualism (perverted as in the artificial selection on cows make them quite unfit to human-free life). On the appreciation side it would be relevant to know more about how cows see humans. I believe many cows in farms are quite happy and many (more) cows are q…

I don't think them lacking knowledge of that fact changes the situation any, though pedantically I'll admit that it would change their perspective of it.

Re: The avocado is an evolutionary anachronism

#45

Post by bluedino »

hetman wrote: post #8
brianprovost wrote: post #2

Could it be possible that avocados were just smaller then and are only the size they are now because they have been bred by humans? I didn't see any mention of avocado fossils or remains.

The article indicates the opposite: "The fruit had a larger pit and less flesh than today’s avocados..."

There are two types of avocado that I see. One has a large pig, close to ping pong ball sizes. Then there's another with a much smaller, marble-sized pit.

Re: The avocado is an evolutionary anachronism

#47

Post by senorjazz »

ars wrote: post #19
crazygringo wrote: post #15

> The fruit had a larger pit and less flesh than today’s avocados, but it really served as a quick snack for big mammals like the mammoth... How the avocado still exists in the wild after surviving its evolutionary failures remains a puzzle. But once Homo sapiens evolved to the point where it could cultivate the species, the fruit had the chance to thrive anew. Back when the giant beasts roamed the earth, the avocado…

And couldn't a new world monkey simply carry the avocado somewhere else to eat it? Does it have to pass through the gut?

No, our compost hole in the garden has about 10+ small avocado trees growing from it and around when the chickens disturb it.

Tend to see them sprout up best after sustained rain, temps 25c-30c in the shade

Re: The avocado is an evolutionary anachronism

#48

Post by senorjazz »

kochikame wrote: post #28
pugworthy wrote: post #14

Here's a way to view evolutionary theory: a plant that is extremely tasty becomes cultivated, and protected by the species that eats it. As a result, the plant prospers. This actually has a name - Mutualism. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_(biology) for example.

But this falls down a little bit if you apply it to animals. I mean, chickens are tasty and all, and there are probably billions of them in the world right now... but do you call living in a cage with your beak cut off "prospering"? From a purely genetic propagation point of view they are prospering I guess... but at what cost?

> but do you call living in a cage with your beak cut off "prospering"?

Take dogs, 6-12 in a litter, can give birth twice a year. Naturally (street dogs) most young will die, those that end up in to adult hood will be half starved and diseased.

Not exactly a pleasant life, but having so many young, they can survive the high death / suffering rate.

I am not sure I would say street dogs prosper, but they are evolutionary successful

Re: The avocado is an evolutionary anachronism

#49

Post by dTal »

DonHopkins wrote: post #40
FrozenVoid wrote: post #29

Thats a common myth, birds eat and spread avocado seeds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resplendent_quetzal#Feeding

Guard: Where'd you get the avocados? King Arthur: We found them. Guard: Found them? In Mercia? The avocado's tropical! King Arthur: What do you mean? Guard: Well this is a temperate zone! King Arthur: The resplendent quetzal may fly south with the sun, or the house marten or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land! Guard: Are you suggesting avocados migrate? King Arthur: N…

Where is this from? It sounds for all the world like something out of Holy Grail, but I don't remember this bit.

Re: The avocado is an evolutionary anachronism

#50

Post by tartuffe78 »

dTal wrote: post #49
DonHopkins wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guard: Where'd you get the avocados? King Arthur: We found them. Guard: Found them? In Mercia? The avocado's tropical! King Arthur: What do you mean? Guard: Well this is a temperate zone! King Arthur: The resplendent quetzal may fly south with the sun, or the house marten or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land! Guard: Are you suggesting avocados migrate? King Arthur: N…

Where is this from? It sounds for all the world like something out of Holy Grail, but I don't remember this bit.

Yes, but with Coconuts and Swallows
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