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Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

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Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#41
post #21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All news is not subjective. If it was, it'd be editorial content, not news reporting (obviously, don't trust any big media outlet that doesn't make a strong distinction between the two within their own organization). Now, because reporting is the product of humans, it's inevitably going to be subjective to some degree- people still decide what to report on, what words to use when describing things, etc. Objectivity i…

You said it. Editorial choice makes an "objective news" subjective. Deciding what to publish or not is the key. I don't believe in "attempts at being objective". What is needed are newspapers clearly stating their bias so that you know where to stand when you read those.

If a legitimate news source was aware of its own institutional biases, it would actively seek to avoid indulging them, at least with respect to news reporting, as opposed to editorial pieces. That's what makes it a relatively legitimate source of relatively unbiased information.

If I was aware that I had some bias about anything, I would actively seek to counteract it. I would hope that anyone would. A bias is an inherently irrational thing. A bias is like a bug in someone's mind that by definition causes them to misinterpret things that happen in real life. A bias isn't one person caring more about something than someone else does, or one person liking something that another person doesn't like. A bias is something that gets in the way of someone perceiving reality.

If some news outlet posted a big long public statement of bias, why would anyone go to them for accurate information about anything related to that publicly stated bias? If some business news site had a statement of bias in which they came out and said that they were all total fanboys of some company and that they personally owned a lot of stock in it, but then they continued to write stories about that company and making buy or sell recommendations, I would disregard anything that news site published about that company. Wouldn't you? They'd be coming out and saying that they are putting a slant on their stories that makes them less accurate and truthful, and that they've chosen to embrace it rather than squash it.

But really the biggest problem with a purported purveyor of truth and facts about the world telling everyone what their bias is, is that nobody really knows what their biases are. Even less than they know what other people's biases are. That's why they're biases. They're things that color your perceptions and make them less accurate and real, that you aren't aware of. If you were aware of them, then presumably they would stop influencing you, because you could then make a conscious effort to squash them.

Example: if someone were molested by gerbils at a very young age, they might have violent impulses towards gerbils later in life but not know why. Once they realize that they are biased against gerbils, surely they would use that knowledge to contain their irrational and awkwardly murderous impulses when encountering gerbils as an adult. A few people might instead double (or triple, or quadruple) down on their gerbil hatred, fully embracing their bias rather than rejecting it. But those are usually the sociopaths- there's always going to be some.

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are free to exclude whatever they like, they're a private company and not beholden to what you think they should be doing. If they do the wrong thing they will go on the trash-heap of bad ideas in history, so far they're doing okay as far as being a business goes.

this is such a lazy, sheepish argument. we all know what is happening. when your private internet provider starts to shut you down for your stupid ideas, or your private bank denies you service lets see how you feel then. and to act like the government does not already regulate the hell out of private business is just a foolish position.

A single social media website is not at all comparable to an ISP or a bank though. Facebook is a wholly unimportant distraction.

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#44

Welcome to Facebook Co. Where a clique of Silicon Valley exec yuppies now decide what is right and what is wrong for us to see. It's a very slippery slope. Cannot wait for the next elections where any candidates with politically "wrong" ideas will see their pages silently being discarded or randomly hidden from timelines without warnings.

They are free to exclude whatever they like, they're a private company and not beholden to what you think they should be doing. If they do the wrong thing they will go on the trash-heap of bad ideas in history, so far they're doing okay as far as being a business goes.

And yet, we have laws that require businesses to build ADA compliant bathrooms, and laws that forbid them from discriminating in both their employment practices and customer relations. If you want to make the “but they are a private business” argument, will you also argue that a private business should be able to say, serve only white people?

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#45
post #11

Seeing the number of downvotes I triggered, it would seem that the concept of all news being subjective it still not accepted, even on HN...

You "triggered" far more upvotes than downvotes, which is one reason why the site guidelines ask people not to go on about downvotes like this. Would you please review them? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20057158 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#46
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this may be it. America has a ban on trade with Iran. I wouldn’t be surprised if American companies also are required to prevent them spreading information.

That would be unconstitutional wouldn't it?

No. The constitution generally doesn’t restrict a private company like FB from imposing restrictions on speech

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#47
post #45
post #11

Seeing the number of downvotes I triggered, it would seem that the concept of all news being subjective it still not accepted, even on HN...

You "triggered" far more upvotes than downvotes, which is one reason why the site guidelines ask people not to go on about downvotes like this. Would you please review them? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20057158 and marked it off-topic.

Well I admit the trend changed but I got a series of downvotes following my comment, I made this comment then when I had actually received way more downvotes than upvotes

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#48

Welcome to Facebook Co. Where a clique of Silicon Valley exec yuppies now decide what is right and what is wrong for us to see. It's a very slippery slope. Cannot wait for the next elections where any candidates with politically "wrong" ideas will see their pages silently being discarded or randomly hidden from timelines without warnings.

They are free to exclude whatever they like, they're a private company and not beholden to what you think they should be doing. If they do the wrong thing they will go on the trash-heap of bad ideas in history, so far they're doing okay as far as being a business goes.

They should be seen as a public utility.

I dislike Facebook but for a lot of people it became part of their life and some information is now only available on Facebook.

As a public utility they should be regulated on what they are allow to restrict from their users.

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#49
post #47
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You "triggered" far more upvotes than downvotes, which is one reason why the site guidelines ask people not to go on about downvotes like this. Would you please review them? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20057158 and marked it off-topic.

Well I admit the trend changed but I got a series of downvotes following my comment, I made this comment then when I had actually received way more downvotes than upvotes

For sure; that's how this typically happens. It's one reason why the guidelines ask you not to post such comments about voting. Vote totals fluctuate. When users see an unfairly downvoted comment, they often give corrective upvotes. Then the comment goes back into positive territory, but a post like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20057244 lingers on, orphaned and inaccurate.

Re: Facebook removes Indian page, says it spread Iranian propaganda

#50

Welcome to Facebook Co. Where a clique of Silicon Valley exec yuppies now decide what is right and what is wrong for us to see. It's a very slippery slope. Cannot wait for the next elections where any candidates with politically "wrong" ideas will see their pages silently being discarded or randomly hidden from timelines without warnings.

Happened in Australia just weeks ago. Various pages belonging to the main Libertarian party ("Liberal Democratic Party") started getting shutdown[0] about a month before elections. [0] https://www.facebook.com/davidlimbrickldp/posts/209817440381...

Possibly because LibDem supporters tend to post obscenely racist/xenophobic/hateful things that often get flagged/reported.
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