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Hong Kong activists wanted by police gain protection in Germany

nytimes.com

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Re: Hong Kong activists wanted by police gain protection in Germany

#41

Post by cyborgsnowflake »

michaelt wrote: post #29
mieseratte wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And, preposterously, America has given political asylum to German home-schoolers a few years ago. Why preposterously?

Perhaps I wouldn't go so far as to call it preposterous, but it would seem to imply a very broad interpretation of what you can be granted asylum for. Germany ranks highly in measures like the World Index of Moral Freedom, the Freedom in the World rankings, and the Freedom of the Press report. If Germany's citizens are entitled to asylum, is there any country whose citizens aren't?

"Freedom of the Press" yet they jail people for posting wrongthink online.

Re: Hong Kong activists wanted by police gain protection in Germany

#42

Post by Tomte »

duxup wrote: post #40
Tomte wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, preposterously, America has given political asylum to German home-schoolers a few years ago.

Is that bad? Someone wants to educate their children at home, in Germany that's not ok. In the US it is, so in the US they get some level of asylum. These folks aren't some terrorists, they're not hurting anyone... seems like a situation where there are two different approaches, not some serious crime. It also is a case by case basis so who knows if it holds up in court for long. Edit: Looks like they lost the asylum…

I have no problems with America welcoming those people.

Without branding Germany a regime persecuting innocent people.

The asylum process basically means just that. Let them immigrate "normally", and everything is fine.

Re: Hong Kong activists wanted by police gain protection in Germany

#43

Post by duxup »

Tomte wrote: post #42
duxup wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that bad? Someone wants to educate their children at home, in Germany that's not ok. In the US it is, so in the US they get some level of asylum. These folks aren't some terrorists, they're not hurting anyone... seems like a situation where there are two different approaches, not some serious crime. It also is a case by case basis so who knows if it holds up in court for long. Edit: Looks like they lost the asylum…

I have no problems with America welcoming those people. Without branding Germany a regime persecuting innocent people. The asylum process basically means just that. Let them immigrate "normally", and everything is fine.

>The asylum process basically means just that.

I think it depends on what you mean by "process" everyone gets some hearings and etc, that is the process.

That doesn't mean they've been accepted or IMO anything about Germany. You have to have a "process" even if the person feels that they're being persecuted because they don't like chocolate ice cream, a process doesn't mean anything about Germany.

Googling shows that a family went through the process... and lost the asylum bid.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/home-schooling-german-family-allow...

Re: Hong Kong activists wanted by police gain protection in Germany

#44

Post by Tomte »

duxup wrote: post #43
Tomte wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problems with America welcoming those people. Without branding Germany a regime persecuting innocent people. The asylum process basically means just that. Let them immigrate "normally", and everything is fine.

>The asylum process basically means just that. I think it depends on what you mean by "process" everyone gets some hearings and etc, that is the process. That doesn't mean they've been accepted or IMO anything about Germany. You have to have a "process" even if the person feels that they're being persecuted because they don't like chocolate ice cream, a process doesn't mean anything about Germany. Googling shows that…

Let me clarify: I'm not against the process, but against the decision to grant asylum.

Yes, it was reversed. Eventually.

Re: Hong Kong activists wanted by police gain protection in Germany

#45

Post by spacehunt »

anthuman wrote: post #38
spacehunt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were Legislative Council and District/Urban/Regional Council Elections even before the Joint Declaration was signed. In fact, in the final years of British administration both the LegCo and the Urban/Regional Councils were elected by universal suffrage. Also, > ... documents recently released by the National Archives in Britain suggest that beginning in the 1950s, the colonial governors who ran Hong Kong repeat…

Wasn't the "legislative" council filled with appointees and served as an advisory role to the british governor ruling over hong kong? Where is the democracy there. Also china played around with "local" elections, doesn't mean they were/are a democracy. As for your last point, so what? Nobody is claiming china is a democracy. But neither was britain. And it's laughable that "chinese pressure" is why britain didn't all…

Of course Hong Kong is supposed to be better under Chinese rule; it's no longer a colony!

I always find it amusing when people try to compare the PRC with the oppressive colonial empires as if they're on the same level...

As for whether LegCo was powerless, look up the Protection of the Harbour Ordinance. It was a bill introduced not by the government but by an elected legislator, something that will never happen under the current system. That bill has been the bane of the government ever since, even after the handover.

Re: Hong Kong activists wanted by police gain protection in Germany

#46

Post by wbl »

Tomte wrote: post #44
duxup wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The asylum process basically means just that. I think it depends on what you mean by "process" everyone gets some hearings and etc, that is the process. That doesn't mean they've been accepted or IMO anything about Germany. You have to have a "process" even if the person feels that they're being persecuted because they don't like chocolate ice cream, a process doesn't mean anything about Germany. Googling shows that…

Let me clarify: I'm not against the process, but against the decision to grant asylum. Yes, it was reversed. Eventually.

Repatriation is irreversible in asylum cases. It makes sense to grant temporary reprieve quickly pending a more durable process. We weren't so generous the last time people fled Germany and the result was disasterous.

Re: Hong Kong activists wanted by police gain protection in Germany

#47

Post by wbl »

anthuman wrote: post #38
spacehunt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were Legislative Council and District/Urban/Regional Council Elections even before the Joint Declaration was signed. In fact, in the final years of British administration both the LegCo and the Urban/Regional Councils were elected by universal suffrage. Also, > ... documents recently released by the National Archives in Britain suggest that beginning in the 1950s, the colonial governors who ran Hong Kong repeat…

Wasn't the "legislative" council filled with appointees and served as an advisory role to the british governor ruling over hong kong? Where is the democracy there. Also china played around with "local" elections, doesn't mean they were/are a democracy. As for your last point, so what? Nobody is claiming china is a democracy. But neither was britain. And it's laughable that "chinese pressure" is why britain didn't all…

Hong Kong democracy was opposed by China. Look at the 68 riots.

Re: Hong Kong activists wanted by police gain protection in Germany

#48

Post by ksec »

PlasticTank wrote: post #11
adminu wrote: post #8

Assuming Hong Kong is indeed tightening its grip on the people and accepting more influence from Beijing, I wonder if that was a smart move. I mean, Hong Kong is a cash cow for China and an innovation driver. It foots on lots of trade and internationals coming in. Why would you fiddle with that and threaten making Hong Kong less desirable to foreigners?

Hong Kong these days is nothing more than a clearing house for China A shares. Shanghai is the big hub for International-China business these days and Singapore takes the APAC business.

Gosh, that is 2 sentence managed to sum up most of the financial activity in APAC and China.

And to add, Shenzhen is where all the technology companies are.

Re: Hong Kong activists wanted by police gain protection in Germany

#49

Post by FabHK »

_ptgt wrote: post #32
FabHK wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's only a matter of a couple decades where HK today will cease to exist Well, at most three decades, to be precise, when in 2047 it will fully revert to China under the Sino-British Joint Declaration, and lose its status as a Special Administrative Region.

My understanding is that HK future after 2047 is left unclear under the Sino-British Joint Declaration. Not that it's specified to be annexed to the mainland. Granted, in practice it's hard to see any other outcome from today's lens. But my observation is that there tends to be a lot of this fact-mangling when it comes to territories PRC likes to claim that suspiciously seems to nearly always coincide with the PRC's…

First time I hear that interpretation, but a quick skimming of the documents suggests that you might be right. Worth investigating.

Re: Hong Kong activists wanted by police gain protection in Germany

#50

Post by deogeo »

FabHK wrote: post #25
mieseratte wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And, preposterously, America has given political asylum to German home-schoolers a few years ago. Why preposterously?

Because it is preposterous to consider the German "Schulpflicht" (ie, the obligation that children visit a public^W school) religious or political persecution. You can teach your children whatever weird shit you want. What you cannot do (in Germany) is take them out of school, where they will also be taught what everyone else is taught, including sex-ed, history, comparative religion, etc. EDIT: correction, it's not…

Forcibly separating children from their parents, even if only for a few hours a day, should not be taken lightly - and I say this as someone who supports mandatory public schooling, even to the exclusion of private schools.
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